Rider: 95kg intermediate
Style: Surf, Freestyle
Being a bigger guy, I'll often ride a 12 when everyone else is on a 9. I'll ride a 9 when everyones on 7's etc.
I have a bro in the industry so have been fortunate to borrow and test a heap of different kites, and am dismayed to see their performance with a bigger guy. They often jellyfish when loaded. I have one kite that literally folds in the corners.
I believe most kites have been designed for, and tested by 75kg pro riders. Anyone 95kg is potentially sailing the kite outside of its intended wind range?
Anyone else have this problem?
Select to expand quoteGlug said..
Rider: 95kg intermediate
Style: Surf, Freestyle
Being a bigger guy, I'll often ride a 12 when everyone else is on a 9. I'll ride a 9 when everyones on 7's etc.
I have a bro in the industry so have been fortunate to borrow and test a heap of different kites, and am dismayed to see their performance with a bigger guy. They often jellyfish when loaded. I have one kite that literally folds in the corners.
I believe most kites have been designed for, and tested by 75kg pro riders. Anyone 95kg is potentially sailing the kite outside of its intended wind range?
Anyone else have this problem?
I know what you are saying Glug, I think most wave kites work for riders around 70Kg - 80Kg. So what happens is you end up using a larger kite than most other guys which defeats the pupose if you want the fastest kite possible when slashing the waves. Although Chris is right as well, a bigger board will stop you staling and keep you on the plane longer, a more power full kite gets you through the bottom turns and drags you back on to the plane if you bog down.
I couldnt find any kite localy that did the trick, for my 91 Kgs I wanted good bar feadback with out the bar preasure and maximum power with speed and tested a lot of kites before I took a punt on these:
www.sugarqube.com.au/index.php/kites/maori-2
Bit of a blatant pimp, but they realy are great kites, made in the North kite factory and brand new about $1200 for a 8m
Glug,
I hear your pain.... I dislike kites that don't suit heavy fellas. You have to make sure your kite is pumped up nice and hard, but this can cause other problems. At the moment I have North Rebels and the reason I got these is because they don't do strange things when heavily loaded and only need 6 psi in them...
B
Wind ranges are for the "average" 75kg rider.
Deforming leading edge - pump it up more, lazy bugger. Too many people I see with limp noodles in the air which is fine when you're Asian and weigh 50kg soaking wet, but you at 95kg (and me at even more) need a tight LE and struts for the higher range we use gear in.
Furthermore, it's my opinion that the heavier you are, the more struts you need to support the leading edge - 3-strut kites are rarely well supported enough to handle being loaded hard without being pumped up way harder than normal. The 4-strut Flite I have works great... my 7-strut Crossbows are over-kill (and heavy) but I can use them til they're way out of their range and are frankly, dangerous.
In the end though, bigger boards are helpful. You might find as your skill improves (dunno your level) you'll find the kites you feel comfy with for the conditions aren't as big as they once were...
... 'course, I might be wrong ;)
I'm 97kgs
And mostly on kites bigger than the rest. But as my technique has improved the kite sizes I use have been getting smaller
My first year I lived on a Zephyr & King George in winds up to 25, the following year I got a Shinn Luigi 2 and a 14m Catalyst. The past 18mths I've been using my 9m Wave & Shinn Dundee 135x44 when I can. Low end is 20mph up to 35. I can use my GF 8m Varial X from 25, more fun from 30 - 40
It is mainly down to being light on your feet and having an efficient kite that you work. Instead of a delta style kite you park & ride IMHO
I have been out many times on the same size kite as lighter riders. Sometimes when I'm on my 9m Wave & TT others of the same weight are on 8 or 9's with the SB
My GF weighs 60kg, there are many days we can share the same kites, she depowers them a little, when I take them over i power them up. We've shared a Zephyr, 14m Cat, 12 Reo(sold), 12m Wave, 9m wave, 8m VX
We are mostly TT riders. I do have a SB as well, but in all the above scenarios I am talking TT
Clearly, you are trying the wrong kites and you are too heavy on your feet
<edit> As Kam says, pump the kite up as hard as you can, pump till you can pump no more. That will make a world of difference to the heavier guy
All kites are designed for 75kg riders as that is the majority of users
The other day, GF was on the 9m Wave, I was on the 12m Wave, winds were 16 - 20mph
Many days she can be on her 8m VX and I'll be on the 9m Wave. Bottom end of the 9 is 20mph for me on a TT
I have yet to see any of the Airush kite we own fold on me. We have a 6 & 8m VX 2012. A 10m 2014 VX. A 2013 9m Wave & a 12m 2014 Wave.
We also have a 14m Cat from 2011 and a Zephyr from 2010
Many times I used to be on the 14m Cat and she would be on her 8m VX. But the Cat isn't that powerful, more like a 12m Bandit
Wait vs Kite Size:
try this forumal and you'll see how much of a different weight of 75kg vs 95kg rider makes.
Saw this formula on SB... didn't think much of it but dropped it into excel and its actually really good.
Shows how much weight difference effects our kite size in the same wind.... 15knots 90kg rider = 15m vs 65kg rider = 11m.
Try it out....
KiteSize = Windspeed / (Rider weight) / 2.5) and round up the number.
You can change the 2.5 depending on how powered up you like to ride
Seems pretty spot on
I ride a 12m core that likes about 22-26knts. Doesnt really like high 20's though or flying too depowered.
I've only ever folded it once. Last weekend when I couldnt pump it up hard enough due to a small leak in the pump hose. I thought it'd be ok but wasnt.
It makes sense that they dont design kites around us super heavy weights as we are most certainly a rarity. Same with shoes i guess. Most places barely stock size 14 let alone size 16
I was 93kg and found three strut kites have a tendancy to fold if it was gusty or I really leant against it. If I was on a twinny I'd go a five strut. But in the waves I just had to finesse it more with a 3 strut.
I'm only 82kg. but I know the folding you talk of. I can get my kite to fold if I ridiculously load them up.
I think kamizuka is spot on. Look for 5 strut kites not 3. pump those bastarrds up hard.
108kg beginner 1yr
Yeah it's what you said the heavy guys load the kites outside of the design specs for the kite IMO. I've basically folded every kite I've flown except for the 5 line designs. No brand is immune and I laugh at the recommended inflation pressures.
Someone should start something for us heavyweights. I see 2 major problems. Nose fold and the dreaded air invert of the kite, and the other is the jellyfish. I prefer the jellyfish as its never a session ender. Does suck looping the kite with the jellyfish stall, Also not great when jumping, either on the load and pop or the whip the kite across the window for the soft landing..... .
What helps for me,
1) Pump as hard as you can, none of my kiting mates can put another pump into my kites. Yes you loose some turning ability on the kite but you will make that up with your extra bar force.
2) Have as many kites as possible and get the closest size for the conditions. If the kites depowered I find a higher probability of the dreaded jellyfish.
3) If you can adjust your settings on the kite have a play. I go for deeper in higher wind, counter intuitive I know. it may be brand specific, but it sort of puts more force on my rear lines so it shares the load better across the kite.
That helps me and I'd be keen to hear other heavyweights experiences listing kite, inflation pressure, wind speed, rider weight, deformation type and what you are doing.
Name and shame...... Or name and gain (experience) because I'll want new kites soon.
As a kite designer its a great idea to have team riders and testers who are different skill levels and builds, riders/testers from 50kg to 115 kg its the 115kg riders that give the most feed back. Every brand should have 120kg+ team riders!
Select to expand quoteKiteDesigner said..
As a kite designer its a great idea to have team riders and testers who are different skill levels and builds, riders/testers from 50kg to 115 kg its the 115kg riders that give the most feed back. Every brand should have 120kg+ team riders!
So what to the XXL guys say about leading edge pressure? Is it common to pump hard at the expense of kite turning ability? What tips/tweaks do they get up to?
I have never heard of.... or experienced a hard leading edge pressure effecting turning ability if anything I think it makes the kite more responsive less spongy... happy to be educated
Highwinds and high kitespeed can cause some kites to fold in the leading edge if is not firm enough........I have seen mine do it mid loop... not something I want a repeat of.
Yeah better to explain. 3 types of inflation pressure.
Soft - yes poor performance and poor relaunch etc.
Normal - recommended by manufacturer.
XXL pressure -scared to measure, bust handles off the pump stuff. Smaller guys need to jump on the handle to squeeze any air out of the pump into the kite.
Seems to me at this pressure you limit the bridles ability to twist the kite shape for fast turning. Only benefit is less %chance of the nose fold or dreaded jellyfish kite stall.
So I'm talking XXL.
I pump up mine to the point the pump really cant go too much further otherwise it'll break. Once the struts are hard, i lock them and put a few more pumps in.
I'm really surprised the handles on my ozone pump havent broken as they feel pretty flimsy.
The guage said 11psi but i dont think it was ever really accurate. Its cracked now anyway.
If Core want a 125kg kite tester they only have to ask 
.
Actually yeah, pump it up hard, and when guys are just starting to change to smaller kites, I might get a couple more runs out of the bigger kite before changing down (if they are smaller than me).
But still, if everybodys on 12's, so am I.
If everybodys on 9's, so am I.
If everybody else is half my weight, I use my own judgement and put up what I thinks right.
After you get a bit more experience, you'll stop copying what the others are doing, and be able to trust your own instincts better.
at a 100kegs i use my island pump to inflate my edges to 9psi . never had any deforming of the kite.
in the early days i did have this issue and all i did was add an extra cm in the middle of the board to get planing earlier and drop a kite size .
sitting at around the 104 mark these days i haven't had any issues with my kites folding and i've had to ride generally a size bigger than the other toothpicks i ride with .
i just inflate to the design pressure and go . no issue . also the longer i kite the smaller my kites are getting. its not all a weight issue , quite a lot of it is kite skill -- up to a point , big boosts etc still need the right kite to drag my ass up there and not let me plummet to the ocean at 100mph .
all im saying really is if you get the balance right between board and kite , doesn't really matter if your a heavier guy.
currently riding an 8 from 25 to 35+ knotts , an 11 from 18 to 27 ,, and a 17 from about 12 to 24
on a 140 x 43 cardboard tempo .
hope this helps ya big fella !
Depends on your wind - higher wind speed and colder air gets me closer to the little guys, but summer will see me on my Speed3 21 while they're riding 12 and 14m LEIs...
Less C-shaped kites need more pressure in the LE. I pump the Crossbows up so they don't deform too much when I try to fold them on the beach... I'm starting to see "ballooning" around the seams on the LE of my most used kite though - had 66 sessions so that's what, almost 200 hours? $7 per session :D
... jellyfishing to me is when the kite is outside its upper wind range, and the tips jellyfish in and out. That's usually when I'm not having fun and need a smaller kite too.
Also found that the waist harness is more efficient - I can ride in lighter wind, better, than with the seat but can't handle as much power out the top.
My boards - Flydoor2 and Flydoor3 XLs, both. I damaged the 2 jamming it into the car and so bought the 3 but I've used the 2 for another year or so, and while it's cracked and getting worse, it's not actually broken! The 3 is lighter weight and has the center fin - it tracks upwind like mad and is lighter than the 2; much easier on the knees when flinging it around.
Lost my Flyradical3 138x42 which was my high wind board last year... lovely board, sorely missed. Replaced it with an Ocean Rodeo Origin 142x47 which is better through chop and has better bottom end, but isn't as stiff so the pop is a bit flat.
Also have an Aboards 2014 Z-series 140x43 but I just couldn't click with that... it's for sale by the way, check the classifieds :D
Have a Mako 150 which I used for powered wave riding (or my feeble attempts at) and a 5'10" SS Dialer for lighter wind and more feeble wave riding...
i think inflation pressure is the key and board selection.
My twinny is a North spike 141 which i love holdsan edge fine over 30+ knots My biggest kite is 12m delta shape (griffin argo) on 24m lines and a 9m 3 strut kite (griffin trx) for higher wind and on the surfboard. My lower end range is on par with the average joe in the area.
I have also demo a fair few brands with no problems with folding (cabs, north and slingys)
How does a 75kg rider stay on the water...or is that why I can't boost? Big boys float, light guys fly?
hi all I'm 95kg,5 years into the sport no problem with my kites I use the seem kites like everybody even i go with my 10 park from 16-23+ my boards are 135 crazyfly buldozer 2013 and naish wakeskate 2010
95kg, kiting for 3 years. 6., 10m and just ordered a 14m. All Airush. I always pump them up hard, never had a problem.
I was riding a switch 144cm and I was usually out on the same size or smaller size than everyone else. Now I'm on a 135 laluz and its usually still the same size kite.
I have the feeling that the airush kites feel pretty good with my weight. No problems so far.
I find it funny you guys think 95kg is heavy for a kiter. I am 108kg and have never had a problem with a kite folding or performing badly because of my weight. I ride both twin tips and surf boards and have kites in my quiver that get me from 12knots+ kiting without a problem. Pump them up hard and go for 5 strut kites. As a heavier kiter you are always going to struggle a bit more at the low end but there is no reason to struggle at the top end. With my surf board I can get out on my surfboard in 23knots with my 11m switch blade while everyone else is on a 12. Then when they are getting dangerously over lit I am on my twin tip watching them blow up yet another kite while I am comfortably kiting in 28 to 30 knots.
I think it depends on how windy it is... I'm about 92 kgs, and once its blowing above 15 kts, I'm pretty much on the same size kite as others, maybe 1m bigger. But if the wind is less than 15 kts, I usually need something 2-3m bigger than others and I still struggle to get going properly (even on a bigger TT or surfboard).
It also depends on the type of wind. When in WA, the wind always feels more consistent (even on light days) and I rarely need a kite that's any bigger than what others are riding. Same goes for a Southerly in NSW. But if it's a light NE on Sydney's northern beaches, I need a much bigger kite to get going. Not sure why... maybe someone who is a meteorologist can explain.
Select to expand quoteGlug said..
Rider: 95kg intermediate
Style: Surf, Freestyle
Being a bigger guy, I'll often ride a 12 when everyone else is on a 9. I'll ride a 9 when everyones on 7's etc.
I have a bro in the industry so have been fortunate to borrow and test a heap of different kites, and am dismayed to see their performance with a bigger guy. They often jellyfish when loaded. I have one kite that literally folds in the corners.
I believe most kites have been designed for, and tested by 75kg pro riders. Anyone 95kg is potentially sailing the kite outside of its intended wind range?
Anyone else have this problem?
Crap... bulldust. my weight is 100kg just touching it... pump the kite to 8psi nice and hard stop the jelly fishing. and when I stayed in cape town south africa all I flew was a 7m fuel and the wind range was from 18knots to 35knots, with a 132 misfit board
in light winds the lighter guys all ways can kite but when the wind blows its tits off they have to fly a bee sting where the heavier guys fly the right kite for that wind range.
It all has to do with skill level and the better u get at it the smaller the kite starts getting for the wind range.
here in perth I fly a 12m rpm with a 137 nobile board most of the times as the wind is just under 22knots most of the times and a 10m rpm when the wind is between 22 and 27knots and then I am on my 7m after 27knots which is not that often anyways
95 kgs , dude your a light weight , I'm 120 kg dry without all the gear on , pump all my kites up rock hard with elect pump , never in 7 years had a kite of my own jellyfish , however when I borrow someone else's yes have had them doing some scary **** when loaded,. I don't use anyone else's gear unless I pump it up myself, if you are too scared to blow it up hard get yourself a foil.
Select to expand quoteAndyHansen said..
KiteSize = Windspeed / (Rider weight) / 2.5) and round up the number.
I think you mean:
KiteSize = ((Rider weight) / windspeed) * 2.5
That was the only way I could get realistic numbers to pop out anyway.
I don't get it. It's all about loading right? For a given kite size and wind speed, whether it's a 75kg kiter that needs to aggressively edge or a big poluka that doesn't need to edge as much in order to keep things going right - the loading is similar.... No?
It all comes back to correct kite and board sizing for a given rider weight and wind speed doesn't it?
I suspect this thread is a non-argument in disguise...
