Forums > Sailing General

Avoidance

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Created by Gorgo > 9 months ago, 21 Jan 2018
Gorgo
VIC, 5033 posts
21 Jan 2018 4:46PM
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I used to windsurf, then kitesurf. Now I ride a hydrofoil almost all the time. My general rule has been to give boats of all kinds plenty of room, particularly sailboats. I generally have much more speed and manoeuvrability so it is appropriate that I use it to get out of the way.

Occasionally, rarely, I get into a position where there is a possibility of conflict or collision with a sailboat.

I have had to take action to avoid being run over.

I have been forced to ride almost into the rocks of a breakwater with my kite flying over the boats inside.

The most recent event had me sitting in the water, struggling to keep my kite vertical overhead while boat after boat cruised well inside the range of my lines. The boats were approaching from more than 500m away and made no effort to give me any room.

Some of the times I have had right of way, not that that is particularly relevant.

Most of the times I have been extremely visible and avoiding me would have meant altering course by a few degrees.

So the question is, why?

Do you not see us? I do a fair bit of cruising with our live aboard friends. We look out for hazards constantly and avoid anything that is likely to cause a problem.

Is it ignorance? Is it not obvious that there are risks to both sides in going very close to a kitesurfer or windsurfer?

Is it competitiveness? We're in a race and we're not changing our line for anybody.

Is it arrogance? My million dollar boat has more right to be here than your toy.

Why does this happen?

twodogs1969
NSW, 1000 posts
21 Jan 2018 5:04PM
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We have a lot of kite surfers at the entrance to the Georges River. Narrowish in the channel lots of traffic. Also a couple of dinghy sailing clubs racing in the same area. To be honest i am not sure what any of the kite surfers are about to do. They turn whenever they feel like it with no rhyme or reason apparent to me. So maybe the yachts have no idea what you are about to do they may well be thinking he is going to take off and go. Just because you know what you are doing and are trying to be courteous the 10 previous guys might not have done the same actions. SO poor yacht has no idea what you are doing. This maybe the answer.

simmrr
WA, 194 posts
21 Jan 2018 2:25PM
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I live this scenario every time I ride my motorbike. It is my predominate form of transport so I understand your sentiment Gorgo. Its just that you are a misunderstood creature. You have to look at it the same way, that everyone is out to kill you and treat it like that at all times.

Its a bit of a mix of what you are describing. Most people would not have tried kiteboarding and therefore have no idea of the dynamics involved. You are also quite small in size and therefore easy to not see, people will missjudge your speed and you are smaller and should get out of there way. And you are right in using your speed to get out of the way.

People of all intellectual degrees are out there and just cause they sail doesnt mean they are going to do the right thing.

I happened to tack on my hobie without looking behind me one day and was almost run down from behind by a yacht that was in a race. I got a heap of abuse. I replied that they need to give way to the right in which there was silence. I was correct but it wouldnt have saved my life if they hadnt been so quick thinking. I was very new and I now know better. Give anything bigger a wide berth as in the end you will come off second best.

I know this message wont bring any comfort but hopefully you take it on board and stay safe.

Craig66
NSW, 2465 posts
21 Jan 2018 5:27PM
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Select to expand quote
Gorgo said..
I used to windsurf, then kitesurf. Now I ride a hydrofoil almost all the time. My general rule has been to give boats of all kinds plenty of room, particularly sailboats. I generally have much more speed and manoeuvrability so it is appropriate that I use it to get out of the way.

Occasionally, rarely, I get into a position where there is a possibility of conflict or collision with a sailboat.

I have had to take action to avoid being run over.

I have been forced to ride almost into the rocks of a breakwater with my kite flying over the boats inside.

The most recent event had me sitting in the water, struggling to keep my kite vertical overhead while boat after boat cruised well inside the range of my lines. The boats were approaching from more than 500m away and made no effort to give me any room.

Some of the times I have had right of way, not that that is particularly relevant.

Most of the times I have been extremely visible and avoiding me would have meant altering course by a few degrees.

So the question is, why?

Do you not see us? I do a fair bit of cruising with our live aboard friends. We look out for hazards constantly and avoid anything that is likely to cause a problem.

Is it ignorance? Is it not obvious that there are risks to both sides in going very close to a kitesurfer or windsurfer?

Is it competitiveness? We're in a race and we're not changing our line for anybody.

Is it arrogance? My million dollar boat has more right to be here than your toy.

Why does this happen?


or
D. Maybe their wife ran off with a foil kiteboarder

Gorgo
VIC, 5033 posts
22 Jan 2018 8:07AM
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Select to expand quote
Craig66 said..

.....



or
D. Maybe their wife ran off with a foil kiteboarder


If he got to keep the boat in the settlement, isn't that a good thing?

Kankama
NSW, 719 posts
22 Jan 2018 5:42PM
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When I see a sailing boat half a mile away, I can work out what it will do. I can then safely get to within 20 metres or less in perfect safety. Kites are totally different. They can accelerate or stop suddenly and take up more room than a maxi yacht when they sweep the kite low. It is often impossible.to predict what theyt will do
I also think there may be an issue with the Sims knowledge of rules and how easy it is to manoeuvre a yacht. In sailing we don't give way to the right and tacking, even onto starboard tack, without giving ample opportunity for a yacht to carefully respond is bad practice , legally wrong and deserves an earful for being out of order. As to the OP, get out on some yachts on twilight racing. Kiteboards are really tricky for yachties to predict so it is helpful to do most of the collision avoidance yourself.
Certainly when I am fanging on a sailboards doing 20 knots I give way to all yachts as I am faster and more manoeuvrable. All it takes is twist of the heels to go up or down 20 degrees which is no hassle compared to a yacht or dinghy. Make your course obvious early and give the yachts early warning of which side you are going and things should be sweet.
Cheers

simmrr
WA, 194 posts
22 Jan 2018 3:59PM
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Close reach on port tack. Changed to close reach on a starboard tack. Just started picking up speed. Yacht was pointing closer to the wind coming from behind on my port side. There was another yacht on their port side. I had right of way but at the same time I did not look back, make my intentions clear and because of my size could have given way. The boats were racing and probably not expecting a tack change and the speed change once the sails were pulled in. 15+ knts winds. Their skill was very good as it could have been a collision between all 3. I was also solo on a hobie16 thinking about all the sail handling, stearing etc. And green at the same time. I changed my sailing area to rockingham as it was too risky learning on the river. And yes I did deserve an ear bashing. On the other hand i dont deserve to be run over by boats im not racing with. Its not just their racetrack.

The message is more about being aware of the surrounds, bigger is bigger, even if you are in the right and perhaps just avoid areas where there is high traffic.

Chris 249
NSW, 3423 posts
23 Jan 2018 10:56AM
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Select to expand quote
Gorgo said..
I used to windsurf, then kitesurf. Now I ride a hydrofoil almost all the time. My general rule has been to give boats of all kinds plenty of room, particularly sailboats. I generally have much more speed and manoeuvrability so it is appropriate that I use it to get out of the way.

Occasionally, rarely, I get into a position where there is a possibility of conflict or collision with a sailboat.

I have had to take action to avoid being run over.

I have been forced to ride almost into the rocks of a breakwater with my kite flying over the boats inside.

The most recent event had me sitting in the water, struggling to keep my kite vertical overhead while boat after boat cruised well inside the range of my lines. The boats were approaching from more than 500m away and made no effort to give me any room.

Some of the times I have had right of way, not that that is particularly relevant.

Most of the times I have been extremely visible and avoiding me would have meant altering course by a few degrees.

So the question is, why?

Do you not see us? I do a fair bit of cruising with our live aboard friends. We look out for hazards constantly and avoid anything that is likely to cause a problem.

Is it ignorance? Is it not obvious that there are risks to both sides in going very close to a kitesurfer or windsurfer?

Is it competitiveness? We're in a race and we're not changing our line for anybody.

Is it arrogance? My million dollar boat has more right to be here than your toy.

Why does this happen?




We used to have a lot of problem with kitesurfers coming scarily close to us on a small cat when we had RoW and were limited in manoeuvrability (either going to marks or coming on or off the beach with rudders up), so most of the reasons you give don't seem to apply. Factors like not understanding the way kites and boards work would seem to be more likely.

The way humans pay attention to things is a surprisingly complicated area. Our ability to pay attention is quite restricted by odd factors, as the invisible gorilla experiment shows at


People tend to notice things that they are interested in, and yachties are more interested in yachts. Maybe the yachties just see something they don't understand and are not interested in, and therefore subconsciously take less notice.

Isn't it likely that the yachts don't understand the sweep of your lines? I have to admit, I have something of an issue with the amount of water kites seem to take up on crowded waterways. Maybe people get annoyed by thinking that kiters are taking up more than their "fair share" of water?

I'm not sure how you were forced into a breakwater or how your kite was so close to the yachts inside, but were they forced to stay in a channel? Were they trying to stick to the correct side of a narrower waterway, as required by the rules?

andy59
QLD, 1153 posts
23 Jan 2018 11:18AM
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Most of the time they have no idea what you want to do, You're sitting there with your kite a 12o'clock they probably think you just having a rest



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"Avoidance" started by Gorgo