I like his critique of reefing. I cringe when I watch sailing Florence. Those two are seriously good sailors but they always round up to reef going downhill. I can drop and raise the main downwind on my cat and agree with Rupert that heading up to reef should be avoided if possible. Also agree about marks on halyards and getting rid of those awful hooks on the gooseneck.
Your mast section and slides are very important. My cat's mast section has a flat about 3cm wide each side of the slot. The main sits on the flat section of the mast. This works really well. It reduces the load on the slides so I can use cheaper machined Austlon slides. Still there is a huge difference if I use silicon spray up the mast about 4 metres, inside the slot and the aft section just before I raise the main. Do this once a month cruising and I can reef on a square up to about 30 knots.
Hi kankama.
RE; getting rid of those awful hooks on the gooseneck.
What is your alternative to the ramshorns?
I find them pretty simple and secure to use.
On my 25 footer I reef at the mast.
1. In the cockpit, tension on the topping lift.
2, At the mast, lower the main, hook on, haul up and place a teak wedge into the organizer.
3, Haul on the reefing line and cleat off.
4. Back in the cockpit. Winch the halyard (the wedge pops out)
Tie a lanyard through the reef cringle and around the boom.
Let off topping lift.
How could I improve on this with no ramshorns?
gary
With downhaul and marks on halyard, drop halyard to mark, insert downhaul hook into reef cringle and pull. That is it for the luff. I found hooks a real pain on a largish fully battened main
Thanks Kankama
I see now.
I guess you use the same downhaul for both /all reef points.
gary
I have all three luff reef cringles permanently rigged with dynema at the sail end but sheathed at the tail end.
They lead through angled eyes on the side of the mast at about (need to fit eyes at height which gets new reefed tack at right height) boom height (r1 and 3 one eye and r2 the other) and then down to turning blocks at deck through organisers and back to winch and clutches. Extra hardware but easy and don't have to reach up high to put hook through luff cringles each time. Overkill on a 25 footer however as the reefs wouldn't be that far apart.
Again marking the halyard is essential.
Not sure how you would maintain foot tension using simple downhaul and no horns without putting a lot of stress on the first mast slide, car or the bolt rope.
On my cat I have husky slides which can take foot loading. If I had too I would have a snap shackle or similar on side of mast, so that the downhaul lies like yours Jules.
My dislike of hooks comes from the struggle to get a second reef in a sail with slides. So slides out and then struggle to get the luff hooked when the cloth really wants to do anything but be pulled forward, often popping out as just as you start tensioning the luff. Again, this is on heavy cloth full battened multihull sails, it is much easier to use a hook on a tackle for me.
On my cat I have husky slides which can take foot loading. If I had too I would have a snap shackle or similar on side of mast, so that the downhaul lies like yours Jules.
My dislike of hooks comes from the struggle to get a second reef in a sail with slides. So slides out and then struggle to get the luff hooked when the cloth really wants to do anything but be pulled forward, often popping out as just as you start tensioning the luff. Again, this is on heavy cloth full battened multihull sails, it is much easier to use a hook on a tackle for me.Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
Thanks Kankama
I see now.
I guess you use the same downhaul for both /all reef points.
gary
Yeah, same one, but everything is done at the base of the mast so there is no issue
Yeah I'm a bit inconsistent as I have not yet cut off my rams horns even though I don't use them. They don't seem to get in the way.
Now if I could just work out a good system for the trailer sailer
Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
Thanks Kankama
I see now.
I guess you use the same downhaul for both /all reef points.
gary
Another way to do it on a smaller boat is to have a very long cunningham eye line (it's only about 4mm thick so the extra length is no big deal) that acts as the luff reefing line when you put in a reef. That was the setup I ended up with on the 28'er. Often no winch was needed; the power of the cunningham tackle alone was enough.
On the 36'er we also use the cunno as the luff reefing line. We have left the hooks on so that if you go to the second reef you can use the hook to hold the first reef if you want to. I'm fitting a more powerful cunningham and then the old one will serve as a reef line but with the current 2:1 or even 4:1 so that luff tension can be applied easily when reefed. The idea is that one can swap from cunno to reefing line as you put more reefs in, and you could easily have the next one ready to go so no one need leave the cockpit to drop a reef in. Currently we take less than a minute singlehanded to reef the 36'er from go to who but that could become a lot quicker with some more work.
I love not having to winch the halyard back up, and the fact that it's easier to get luff pressure via a cunningham with its multi-part tackle. The other thing that's great IMHO is that you only have to move forward once, to move the cunno. Everything else can be done from the safety of the cockpit.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said
Another way to do it on a smaller boat is to have a very long cunningham eye line (it's only about 4mm thick so the extra length is no big deal) that acts as the luff reefing line when you put in a reef. That was the setup I ended up with on the 28'er. Often no winch was needed; the power of the cunningham tackle alone was enough.
On the 36'er we also use the cunno as the luff reefing line. We have left the hooks on so that if you go to the second reef you can use the hook to hold the first reef if you want to. I'm fitting a more powerful cunningham and then the old one will serve as a reef line but with the current 2:1 or even 4:1 so that luff tension can be applied easily when reefed. The idea is that one can swap from cunno to reefing line as you put more reefs in, and you could easily have the next one ready to go so no one need leave the cockpit to drop a reef in. Currently we take less than a minute singlehanded to reef the 36'er from go to who but that could become a lot quicker with some more work.
I love not having to winch the halyard back up, and the fact that it's easier to get luff pressure via a cunningham with its multi-part tackle. The other thing that's great IMHO is that you only have to move forward once, to move the cunno. Everything else can be done from the safety of the cockpit.
I still come back to how much tension can you put on the foot. Not much use having less sail area if it's a very full shape. This cunningham tackle like solution has no anchor for the luff to counteract the horizontal clew outhaul force. Most masts don't even sport a slide or car there as that is where the slot is in the track (not that I like the idea of a slide or car taking that load).
The padeyes that I added to the side of my mast just below reefing tack height ensure the luff reefing dynema downhauls (when fully down) are at about a 45 degree angle for the short downhaul to reefing eye run just as the non reefed tack shackle is.
My SS34 only has two reefs in the main. The reefing lines are permanently reefed. 6mm Spectra so there is no bulk. Main halyard is dropped to preset marks and the reefing lines become the new Cunningham eye with the leads set either side of the mast that easily handles the tension required for the foot. Slides are held in a cassette. Reefing lines to a winch with a plastic cleat behind it.
If I had a small trailer sailer I would do exactly the same. I see no need to leave the cockpit.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
My SS34 only has two reefs in the main. The reefing lines are permanently reefed. 6mm Spectra so there is no bulk. Main halyard is dropped to preset marks and the reefing lines become the new Cunningham eye with the leads set either side of the mast that easily handles the tension required for the foot. Slides are held in a cassette. Reefing lines to a winch with a plastic cleat behind it.
If I had a small trailer sailer I would do exactly the same. I see no need to leave the cockpit.
Yep the key (apart from marking the halliard) is the "leads" set either side of the mast. Do you use padeyes? I find no problem with reef one and three going through the same padeye as the lines at that point are dynema and slippery and I usually go from one to two or two to three or reverse.
The trailer sailer reefing is all kinds of messed up ATM with a combo of roller boom(=ditch vang), mylar sail AND slab reefing with no horizontal intermediate cringles, no luff lines except rams horns/cunningham tackle. Batten (all full) tension makes it all but impossible to get the luff reefing cringle forward and over the rams horns and I actually tore the sail last time near the luff tape trying to pull it forward onto the rams horns. Also don't like the leech reefing lines crushing the mylar sail.
Dinghy block one side of the mast and a saddle the other. The reefing lines come down at 45 degrees.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
Dinghy block one side of the mast and a saddle the other. The reefing lines come down at 45 degrees.
Thanks; a couple of pictures would be appreciated next time you're on the boat. From memory you also have quite a few small coach house roof winches rather than clutches.
The problem with the trailer sailer is that every line at the bottom of the mast is a complete pain in the ass to stow and then re-assign to the correct turning block when the mast is raised and lowered for travel (with the mast base moved three or four meters forward over the pulpit) - and there are a LOT of blocks and lines already. That is why the cunningham billy/horns still have appeal- if only they worked.
The two spinnaker halyards have clutches. Everything else is on cleats. The layout for all the reefing gear is straight out of the Selden handbook.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
The two spinnaker halyards have clutches. Everything else is on cleats. The layout for all the reefing gear is straight out of the Selden handbook.
Thanks
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..Chris 249 said
Another way to do it on a smaller boat is to have a very long cunningham eye line (it's only about 4mm thick so the extra length is no big deal) that acts as the luff reefing line when you put in a reef. That was the setup I ended up with on the 28'er. Often no winch was needed; the power of the cunningham tackle alone was enough.
On the 36'er we also use the cunno as the luff reefing line. We have left the hooks on so that if you go to the second reef you can use the hook to hold the first reef if you want to. I'm fitting a more powerful cunningham and then the old one will serve as a reef line but with the current 2:1 or even 4:1 so that luff tension can be applied easily when reefed. The idea is that one can swap from cunno to reefing line as you put more reefs in, and you could easily have the next one ready to go so no one need leave the cockpit to drop a reef in. Currently we take less than a minute singlehanded to reef the 36'er from go to who but that could become a lot quicker with some more work.
I love not having to winch the halyard back up, and the fact that it's easier to get luff pressure via a cunningham with its multi-part tackle. The other thing that's great IMHO is that you only have to move forward once, to move the cunno. Everything else can be done from the safety of the cockpit.
I still come back to how much tension can you put on the foot. Not much use having less sail area if it's a very full shape. This cunningham tackle like solution has no anchor for the luff to counteract the horizontal clew outhaul force. Most masts don't even sport a slide or car there as that is where the slot is in the track (not that I like the idea of a slide or car taking that load).
The padeyes that I added to the side of my mast just below reefing tack height ensure the luff reefing dynema downhauls (when fully down) are at about a 45 degree angle for the short downhaul to reefing eye run just as the non reefed tack shackle is.
I know this is extremely late but I just came across it.
The 36'er's luff has Harken roller bearing luff cars at the reef points, so the luff isn't going anywhere. :-)
The padeye is the conventional way and works well but with the 28'er I just had a minimalist setup that also worked well. On the 28'er there was no luff groove but the reef tension was sufficient to stop the luff moving aft and making the sail deeper. The luff may have moved a few mm aft but that was easily dealt with by the tack reef. On long offshore beats I would just pass the cunno/reefing line around the front of the mast to give a forward component to the pull, or whack a line through the block and around the mast.
