So I just had Norths put some slides on my main as I got sick of the bolt rope not feeding.
They just used the Cunningham eye for the bottom slide which unfortunately sits underneath the beginning of the luff track.
Does anyone know where I might be able to pick up say a 150mm long bit of track with the profile pictured below. It's about 12 mil ID.
I can't find anything like it online of any length.
I wouldn't do it. I would make a loop with some 8mm dyneema (unsheethed so it's slippery) with an eye spliced in one end and a plastic bobble on the other.dinghy sailors with carbon masts and booms do this stuff all the time.I know it's a faff, but when you load up the outhaul you don't want to be transferring the load into the track at that point. Or for that matter putting more holes into the mast in that location.
go back to Norths and ask them for a longer bit of that Velcro webbing they used to attach the slug to the Cunningham cringle...
Change that bottom slide to a slug. Chase up a piece of the slug track to extend the track down to about 50 or 60 mm above the goose neck and make the bottom into a slide cassette. Pin through the bottom to stop the slugs all falling out when the sail is lowered.
It will change your life!
Ullrich Aluminium were taken over by Vulcan - see 62nd page of the 91pdf page catalogue here - Section UA1423 which might suit but it is for flat slides so be a problem for the feeder. Suggest give Vulcan a call and send cross section dimensioned sketch of your track and the mast diameter - they could have a suitable section which is not in this catalogue.
vulcan.co/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/VUL-UA-Standard-Products-Catalogue.pdf
Just take the sail back and get an eyelet put in above the cunningham where the slug will be in the existing track.
its unusual to use the cunningham for a slug anyway.
Select to expand quotestray said..
Just take the sail back and get an eyelet put in above the cunningham where the slug will be in the existing track.
its unusual to use the cunningham for a slug anyway.
That was my first thought and I agree that Norths were probably just being lazy using the cunningham eye. Also pretty poor that they didn't ask me where my track began. Will make it hard to get an s hook into the Cunningham eye as well.
I'm just a little worried however about the unsupported luff length at the base if I get the slug moved upwards. It probably needs to go up about 150 even if the Cunningham is never used but in order that the Cunningham work it probably needs to be at least another 200 up above that so maybe 350 in all leaving 700mm of the luff unsupported between the tack shackle and the first slide.
Select to expand quoter13 said..
Ullrich Aluminium were taken over by Vulcan - see 62nd page of the 91pdf page catalogue here - Section UA1423 which might suit but it is for flat slides so be a problem for the feeder. Suggest give Vulcan a call and send cross section dimensioned sketch of your track and the mast diameter - they could have a suitable section which is not in this catalogue.
vulcan.co/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/VUL-UA-Standard-Products-Catalogue.pdf
Thank you very much for that valuable research. I will call them on Monday and I'm thinking I might also talk to a couple of riggers as you never know some might have some off cuts lying around.
Interestingly my research turned up the feeder product depicted in the attached screenshot from the deck hardware site which says it is a feeder for an extrusion which seems to be known as 0626 or a626 but I can find no such extrusion. The profile of that extrusion looks to be dead right.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
Change that bottom slide to a slug. Chase up a piece of the slug track to extend the track down to about 50 or 60 mm above the goose neck and make the bottom into a slide cassette. Pin through the bottom to stop the slugs all falling out when the sail is lowered.
It will change your life!
Thanks yes I like the idea of having a cassette right down to the boom to keep the sail lower when not in use without all the slides falling out but doesn't that still leave me with the same problem of having to find that extrusion.
You seem to be making a distinction between slides and slugs and I'm not quite sure what the distinction is?
The bottom slide that they have fitted and the ones at the batten ends as well as the headboard are beefy as depicted below whereas the intermediate ones are much shorter and flimsier.
Select to expand quoteJonE said..
I wouldn't do it. I would make a loop with some 8mm dyneema (unsheethed so it's slippery) with an eye spliced in one end and a plastic bobble on the other.dinghy sailors with carbon masts and booms do this stuff all the time.I know it's a faff, but when you load up the outhaul you don't want to be transferring the load into the track at that point. Or for that matter putting more holes into the mast in that location.
go back to Norths and ask them for a longer bit of that Velcro webbing they used to attach the slug to the Cunningham cringle...
That's an idea thank you although I'm not sure I want something else loose around the mast at that point with all the halliards and other stuff going on. I also don't like using the Cunningham eye for anything else as it makes it harder to rig for its intended purpose.
If I did that I would want Norths to move the beefy slug up one as the next slug up is pretty tiny.
Contact Ben at SparCrafters 0404138863.
SparCrafters took over Keeley Marine stock .
eg.
eg.www.sparcrafters.com.au/products/c2d7a2c7c6/3878115000000116468
By the way they specialise in hard to find rigging ,extrusions etc. especially for trailer sailers such mast base plates . If he doesn't have it he will make one
Select to expand quoteBananabender said..
Contact Ben at SparCrafters 0404138863.
SparCrafters took over Keeley Marine stock .
eg.
eg.www.sparcrafters.com.au/products/c2d7a2c7c6/3878115000000116468
By the way they specialise in hard to find rigging ,extrusions etc. especially for trailer sailers such mast base plates . If he doesn't have it he will make one
Thank you very much I will contact him.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..Ramona said..
Change that bottom slide to a slug. Chase up a piece of the slug track to extend the track down to about 50 or 60 mm above the goose neck and make the bottom into a slide cassette. Pin through the bottom to stop the slugs all falling out when the sail is lowered.
It will change your life!
Thanks yes I like the idea of having a cassette right down to the boom to keep the sail lower when not in use without all the slides falling out but doesn't that still leave me with the same problem of having to find that extrusion.
You seem to be making a distinction between slides and slugs and I'm not quite sure what the distinction is?
The bottom slide that they have fitted and the ones at the batten ends as well as the headboard are beefy as depicted below whereas the intermediate ones are much shorter and flimsier.
I thought the bottom one was a flat slide. Now I can see it's a slug. Just go to a caravan place and buy a sail track of a certain length or an aluminium dealer and buy what you need. It's a double flange track you need. I bought enough for a Finn boom from an aluminium dealer. The caravan shops will want to sell a full length, the dealers will cut what you need. My boom track was 3 metres or so and was something like $15.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..
I'm just a little worried however about the unsupported luff length at the base if I get the slug moved upwards. It probably needs to go up about 150 even if the Cunningham is never used but in order that the Cunningham work ...
um, if the sail is hoisted to the black line as before then that bottom bit wasn't supported anyway was it?
I get you want some track below the bottom slug so when the cunningham is tensioned it doesn't fall out of the track. Trade-off from not using the continuous support of the bolt rope.
Hoist the sail, crack on the cunninghsm and measure how far above it you require the bottom slug then send it back and get them to finish the job properly. They have been a bit cheeky in using the cringle.
Hey I just dropped 600 bucks getting a Dacron sail re-battened and repaired even though it's a pretty tired sail. I did it because my good racing sail only has one reef and doesn't have slugs (the Dacron has 4 reefs and slugs).
I reckon your sail looks pretty tired too and it seems like you'd just be pouring money and effort and drilling holes trying to make something perfect that won't ever be perfect.
Sail it before you do anything else to it - except switch that bit of shock cord for some dyneema.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..stray said..
Just take the sail back and get an eyelet put in above the cunningham where the slug will be in the existing track.
its unusual to use the cunningham for a slug anyway.
That was my first thought and I agree that Norths were probably just being lazy using the cunningham eye. Also pretty poor that they didn't ask me where my track began. Will make it hard to get an s hook into the Cunningham eye as well.
I'm just a little worried however about the unsupported luff length at the base if I get the slug moved upwards. It probably needs to go up about 150 even if the Cunningham is never used but in order that the Cunningham work it probably needs to be at least another 200 up above that so maybe 350 in all leaving 700mm of the luff unsupported between the tack shackle and the first slide.
I dont think you would need to pull the cunningham eye down any more than 50mm for draught control so I would think a slug 100mm above the end of your tape measure would be fine.
About 500 up from tack by the looks.
Select to expand quoteJonE said..
Hey I just dropped 600 bucks getting a Dacron sail re-battened and repaired even though it's a pretty tired sail. I did it because my good racing sail only has one reef and doesn't have slugs (the Dacron has 4 reefs and slugs).
I reckon your sail looks pretty tired too and it seems like you'd just be pouring money and effort and drilling holes trying to make something perfect that won't ever be perfect.
Sail it before you do anything else to it - except switch that bit of shock cord for some dyneema.
Yeah the sail
is a bit tired but it's not a bad shape because it's synthetic. The shock cord by the way is a new temporary measure when I put the mast up yesterday in my yard just to stop the slides dumping out the bottom of the track when I let it down.
I took the pictures to post on here and then suddenly noticed that my feeder has lost both its balls on the way back from Airlie beach somehow. Not that I need it any more. Strange timing but not complaining.
Select to expand quotestray said..julesmoto said..stray said..
Just take the sail back and get an eyelet put in above the cunningham where the slug will be in the existing track.
its unusual to use the cunningham for a slug anyway.
That was my first thought and I agree that Norths were probably just being lazy using the cunningham eye. Also pretty poor that they didn't ask me where my track began. Will make it hard to get an s hook into the Cunningham eye as well.
I'm just a little worried however about the unsupported luff length at the base if I get the slug moved upwards. It probably needs to go up about 150 even if the Cunningham is never used but in order that the Cunningham work it probably needs to be at least another 200 up above that so maybe 350 in all leaving 700mm of the luff unsupported between the tack shackle and the first slide.
I dont think you would need to pull the cunningham eye down any more than 50mm for draught control so I would think a slug 100mm above the end of your tape measure would be fine.
About 500 up from tack by the looks.
Good points.
Select to expand quoteDrogueOne said..julesmoto said..
I'm just a little worried however about the unsupported luff length at the base if I get the slug moved upwards. It probably needs to go up about 150 even if the Cunningham is never used but in order that the Cunningham work ...
um, if the sail is hoisted to the black line as before then that bottom bit wasn't supported anyway was it?
I get you want some track below the bottom slug so when the cunningham is tensioned it doesn't fall out of the track. Trade-off from not using the continuous support of the bolt rope.
Hoist the sail, crack on the cunninghsm and measure how far above it you require the bottom slug then send it back and get them to finish the job properly. They have been a bit cheeky in using the cringle.
I will do that and yes I wasn't thrilled with their work especially considering the cost.
Select to expand quoteJonE said..
Hey I just dropped 600 bucks getting a Dacron sail re-battened and repaired even though it's a pretty tired sail. I did it because my good racing sail only has one reef and doesn't have slugs (the Dacron has 4 reefs and slugs).
I reckon your sail looks pretty tired too and it seems like you'd just be pouring money and effort and drilling holes trying to make something perfect that won't ever be perfect.
Sail it before you do anything else to it - except switch that bit of shock cord for some dyneema.
Yeah the sail
is a bit tired but it's not a bad shape because it's synthetic. The shock cord by the way is a new temporary measure when I put the mast up yesterday in my yard just to stop the slides dumping out the bottom of the track when I let it down.
I took the pictures to post on here and then suddenly noticed that my feeder has lost both its balls on the way back from Airlie beach somehow. Not that I need it any more. Strange timing but not complaining.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..julesmoto said..Ramona said..
Change that bottom slide to a slug. Chase up a piece of the slug track to extend the track down to about 50 or 60 mm above the goose neck and make the bottom into a slide cassette. Pin through the bottom to stop the slugs all falling out when the sail is lowered.
It will change your life!
Thanks yes I like the idea of having a cassette right down to the boom to keep the sail lower when not in use without all the slides falling out but doesn't that still leave me with the same problem of having to find that extrusion.
You seem to be making a distinction between slides and slugs and I'm not quite sure what the distinction is?
The bottom slide that they have fitted and the ones at the batten ends as well as the headboard are beefy as depicted below whereas the intermediate ones are much shorter and flimsier.
I thought the bottom one was a flat slide. Now I can see it's a slug. Just go to a caravan place and buy a sail track of a certain length or an aluminium dealer and buy what you need. It's a double flange track you need. I bought enough for a Finn boom from an aluminium dealer. The caravan shops will want to sell a full length, the dealers will cut what you need. My boom track was 3 metres or so and was something like $15.
Yeah thanks for that. I've actually got some single flange track at home because I'm breaking up my Hydra which of course has a trampoline but when I looked online I couldn't find any double flange stuff and particularly no double flanges at an angle.
You are going to have to add track below what you have there or put in a pin in the bottom of the sail track to keep in the slugs if you are planning to reef the sail at sometime!
On my Currawong I made a cassette for the slides out of two pieces of flat SS pop rivetted to the mast. That mainsail had 3 reefs so it was important to get the slides down as far as possible. Especially when your are down to the third reef so your "new" cunningham eye is down as low as possible to keep a good sail shape.
In your case I would buy 50cm of double flange track. Cut strips off each side so you still have plenty left for fastenings and after attaching, fair in the edges with epoxy.
Bunnings have it in 3m lengths.
www.bunnings.com.au/metal-mate-43-x-11-36mm-x-3m-aluminium-double-flange-rope-track_p0427738?srsltid=AfmBOoq2w4KXZdpOUASJwV1uXtkJWat7GWgrMx_-jAcR7LSucve0HK8V
For my boom I sliced it down along that extrusion mark. Aluminium suppliers have the same stuff but they will cut to your needs.
Thank you. I'll see if I can get something with a curved profile on Monday otherwise I might go with this solution and cut the flanges right away except for at the top on the bottom which I might try to curve slightly. I only really need strength at the top if the lower slug still requires fitting into it but below that it probably doesn't require any strength as it is just acting as a storage cassette.
I don't fancy trying to bend 400 millimeters of flange but perhaps a few tabs of about 1 inch height might be possible and the reduction in strength might not matter.
Update - was just in Bunnings and the slug won't fit into that double flange stuff as it is 11.3mm OD and I require 11 or maybe even 12 ID. Shame because the flanges are quite thin and would probably bend okay.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..
Thank you. I'll see if I can get something with a curved profile on Monday otherwise I might go with this solution and cut the flanges right away except for at the top on the bottom which I might try to curve slightly. I only really need strength at the top if the lower slug still requires fitting into it but below that it probably doesn't require any strength as it is just acting as a storage cassette.
I don't fancy trying to bend 400 millimeters of flange but perhaps a few tabs of about 1 inch height might be possible and the reduction in strength might not matter.
Update - was just in Bunnings and the slug won't fit into that double flange stuff as it is 11.3mm OD and I require 11 or maybe even 12 ID. Shame because the flanges are quite thin and would probably bend okay.
Assume a typo11.3mm OD and I require 11 - for 11.3mm slug need 12mm ID. I would be careful to ensure suitable strength into that added piece of track rivetted to the mast - an abnormal or unexpected load case could occur eg during reefing. So enough rivets and of a suitable strength. We ripped our 2nd mainsail (heavy weather dacron) at the first slug putting the first reef in because we didn't think far enough ahead of the sequence and it got the full foot load in 30kt black noreaster. This loading may not occur with your set-up but if it could, suggest allow for it.
Select to expand quoter13 said..julesmoto said..
Thank you. I'll see if I can get something with a curved profile on Monday otherwise I might go with this solution and cut the flanges right away except for at the top on the bottom which I might try to curve slightly. I only really need strength at the top if the lower slug still requires fitting into it but below that it probably doesn't require any strength as it is just acting as a storage cassette.
I don't fancy trying to bend 400 millimeters of flange but perhaps a few tabs of about 1 inch height might be possible and the reduction in strength might not matter.
Update - was just in Bunnings and the slug won't fit into that double flange stuff as it is 11.3mm OD and I require 11 or maybe even 12 ID. Shame because the flanges are quite thin and would probably bend okay.
Assume a typo11.3mm OD and I require 11 - for 11.3mm slug need 12mm ID. I would be careful to ensure suitable strength into that added piece of track rivetted to the mast - an abnormal or unexpected load case could occur eg during reefing. So enough rivets and of a suitable strength. We ripped our 2nd mainsail (heavy weather dacron) at the first slug putting the first reef in because we didn't think far enough ahead of the sequence and it got the full foot load in 30kt black noreaster. This loading may not occur with your set-up but if it could, suggest allow for it.
Good point. Anyway the thin stuff in Bunnings doesn't fit so I'll try and get a genuine section on Monday.
So my local rigger put me onto the guys at Whale Spars who were fantastic and identified the extrusion in no time and were happy to fix me up with an off cut.
Interesting operation 30 minutes north of Hornsby on a farm like property with a number of sheds with all sorts of machinery and spars. Heaps of etchels being refitted as that is one of their specialties. There were also a couple of really beefy looking masts off 45 footers being fitted out.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..
So my local rigger put me onto the guys at Whale Spars who were fantastic
Great bunch of blokes & very reasonable!!
They supplied all my standing rigging.
100% second that. They picked up a 2nd hand as new mast we got which was stored in a Wyong warehouse and virtually forgotten and delivered it to our rigger in Taren Pt for a most reasonable cost. They are flexible, collaborative and reliable / dependable.
