www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/aratere-ferry-live-updates-interim-report-to-be-released-after-interislander-ferry-ran-aground-near-picton/2QOVDRIFPNA7FJM4Z5WBX6SOOI/
With thanks to Magnesium for very appropriate heading :-)
I can commiserate to an extent. Had numerous encounters with inadvertent/inappropriate activation of autopilot.
One memorable time i took the wheel on a mates boat as we entered a marina, idling along while the crew ran around getting everything squared away and ready for berthing.
I had just put a bit of port wheel on to counter a gust when the wheel suddenly locked solid and we commenced a rather panic inducing turn towards the rocks.
I assumed that we had dropped a line in the water, suffered mechanical steering failure or some other method of fouling the rudder and thought we could also be about to lose propulsion.
Fortunately the owner calmly reached through one of the ports from the cabin and switched the autopilot off.
Turns out the auto helm controls were a little too easy to activate by being bumped as crew transited the cockpit to set up fenders after.
It just reminded me that it's always a good idea to have multiple crew on board who are knowledgeable and competent with the propulsion and steering systems on your boat.
That ship could be jinxed.........see NZ comments of history to 2014 and my audit of wagon lashing systems 2006.............it is at times a very fierce bit of water that Strait.............
Syd Harbour ferry Collaroy also went aground on Manly Pt 16.2.2001 on autopilot but that's another story............
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..
So NOONE on the bridge knew how to turn off the autopilot! That's impressive. More DEI hires?
Definitely not flying air New Zealand anytime soon.
In the article it clearly states that there were several contributing factors exacerbated by the crew being unfamiliar with how a new system worked.
- weren't aware that you could only re-establish manual steering by matching helm order to current rudder angle or holding the takeover button down for 5 seconds.
Select to expand quoteD3 said..julesmoto said..
So NOONE on the bridge knew how to turn off the autopilot! That's impressive. More DEI hires?
Definitely not flying air New Zealand anytime soon.
In the article it clearly states that there were several contributing factors exacerbated by the crew being unfamiliar with how a new system worked.
- weren't aware that you could only re-establish manual steering by matching helm order to current rudder angle or holding the takeover button down for 5 seconds.
I fail to see how this could be the case if autopilot had ever been used since installed. Presumably the ferry doesn't dock under autopilot. Therefore if the autopilot had ever been used it must have been disengaged every trip. If it had never been disengaged then it must be the worlds first totally autonomous ferry and has no need of a crew to navigate.
The crew must have been totally useless and ill-trained. Can't fire any one these days or insult their feelings (especially in New Zealand) so they will be back driving the ferry very soon placing thousands of passengers in mortal danger when the next quick or intelligent decision is required.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto
I fail to see how this could be the case if autopilot had ever been used since installed. Presumably the ferry doesn't dock under autopilot. Therefore if the autopilot had ever been used it must have been disengaged every trip. If it had never been disengaged then it must be the worlds first totally autonomous ferry and has no need of a crew to navigate.
The crew must have been totally useless and ill-trained. Can't fire any one these days or insult their feelings (especially in New Zealand) so they will be back driving the ferry very soon placing thousands of passengers in mortal danger when the next quick or intelligent decision is required.
As D3 stated, there were several contributing factors one of which was the autopilot.
Someone on a previous thread mentioned the 'Swiss cheese' model. When the Concord crashed for example, there were at least 11 contributing factors all of which on their own wouldn't have had the catastrophic outcome that it did.
So without knowing ALL the contributing factors, it would be prudent to not make wide sweeping accusations.
I'm all for professionalism in the wheelhouse, including robust training on all systems and emergency procedures.
That has nothing to do with DEI.
Please separate the two
Select to expand quoteD3 said..
I'm all for professionalism in the wheelhouse, including robust training on all systems and emergency procedures.
That has nothing to do with DEI.
Please separate the two
+1.
Regards errant autopilots:
I had a body worn MOB transmitter that had two modes, under power and under sail. Under power, an activaton would put the helm hard over. Under sail it would put the boat in irons. So it was important to set the proper mode for obvious reasons.
All of this was great until the battery started to die on the body worn transmitter. The battery replacement required it to be sent away, so I stupidly delayed doing anything about it.
Not a good thing.
A few times I'd sailing along under autopilot and and wander too far away from the hardwired transmitter. All of a sudden the boat would throw itself into a crash tack because the dopey skipper forgot to switch modes. Made for a couple of hairy moments, as there was zero chance of moving the helm once the hydraulics took over. Thankfully it only took a quick button press to disable.
I learnt rather quickly that autohelms with slaved MOB systems do not suffer fools at all well!
Select to expand quoteD3 said..
I'm all for professionalism in the wheelhouse, including robust training on all systems and emergency procedures.
That has nothing to do with DEI.
Please separate the two
+2 for your comment D3.
@ julesmotto the comment re DEI is absolutely irrelevant and offensive!
Select to expand quoteWoohoo said..D3 said..
I'm all for professionalism in the wheelhouse, including robust training on all systems and emergency procedures.
That has nothing to do with DEI.
Please separate the two
+2 for your comment D3.
@ julesmotto the comment re DEI is absolutely irrelevant and offensive!
Offensive to who? I was scratching around in disbelief for a reason why an entire team on the bridge of a large ship didn't know how to turn the autopilot off - given that it was New Zealand.
The whole concept of DEI offends me. It's a shame that your sensitive feelings seem to have been upset but I see that you are not a believer in free speech or anyone being allowed to hold on opposing view. Anyway as this is a sailing forum I don't propose to reply any further no matter how much you two feel it necessary to continue to try and nanny/ reprimand me.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..Woohoo said..D3 said..
I'm all for professionalism in the wheelhouse, including robust training on all systems and emergency procedures.
That has nothing to do with DEI.
Please separate the two
+2 for your comment D3.
@ julesmotto the comment re DEI is absolutely irrelevant and offensive!
Offensive to who? I was scratching around in disbelief for a reason why an entire team on the bridge of a large ship didn't know how to turn the autopilot off - given that it was New Zealand.
The whole concept of DEI offends me. I see that you are not a believer in free speech. Anyway as this is a sailing forum I don't propose to reply any further no matter how much you two feel it necessary to continue to try and reprimand me.
Scratching my head as to why you even brought up DEI in a sailing forum, dude.
Select to expand quoteWoohoo said..julesmoto said..Woohoo said..D3 said..
I'm all for professionalism in the wheelhouse, including robust training on all systems and emergency procedures.
That has nothing to do with DEI.
Please separate the two
+2 for your comment D3.
@ julesmotto the comment re DEI is absolutely irrelevant and offensive!
Offensive to who? I was scratching around in disbelief for a reason why an entire team on the bridge of a large ship didn't know how to turn the autopilot off - given that it was New Zealand.
The whole concept of DEI offends me. I see that you are not a believer in free speech. Anyway as this is a sailing forum I don't propose to reply any further no matter how much you two feel it necessary to continue to try and reprimand me.
Scratching my head as to why you even brought up DEI in a sailing forum, dude.
I'm open to other suggestions as to how you end up with a whole bridge full of incompetants.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..Woohoo said..julesmoto said..Woohoo said..D3 said..
I'm all for professionalism in the wheelhouse, including robust training on all systems and emergency procedures.
That has nothing to do with DEI.
Please separate the two
+2 for your comment D3.
@ julesmotto the comment re DEI is absolutely irrelevant and offensive!
Offensive to who? I was scratching around in disbelief for a reason why an entire team on the bridge of a large ship didn't know how to turn the autopilot off - given that it was New Zealand.
The whole concept of DEI offends me. I see that you are not a believer in free speech. Anyway as this is a sailing forum I don't propose to reply any further no matter how much you two feel it necessary to continue to try and reprimand me.
Scratching my head as to why you even brought up DEI in a sailing forum, dude.
I'm open to other suggestions as to how you end up with a whole bridge full of incompetants.
Not dissimilar to how on any forum it appears that at least one seems to surface regularly.
There were on the face of it in the article at least 6 latent human failures and at least 1 system latent failure.
Operating at night increases the risks
Captain under training increases the risks
Captain doing the training increases risks
A new system increases risks
A new system of a similar design but different fucntions is a massive risk.
and the list goes on.
But you won't listen -again. You immediately jumped to a conclusion. Race, gender, sexuality, heck not even a name was given in the article. Of course the official report if you have happened to had seen that will.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..Woohoo said..julesmoto said..Woohoo said..D3 said..
I'm all for professionalism in the wheelhouse, including robust training on all systems and emergency procedures.
That has nothing to do with DEI.
Please separate the two
+2 for your comment D3.
@ julesmotto the comment re DEI is absolutely irrelevant and offensive!
Offensive to who? I was scratching around in disbelief for a reason why an entire team on the bridge of a large ship didn't know how to turn the autopilot off - given that it was New Zealand.
The whole concept of DEI offends me. I see that you are not a believer in free speech. Anyway as this is a sailing forum I don't propose to reply any further no matter how much you two feel it necessary to continue to try and reprimand me.
Scratching my head as to why you even brought up DEI in a sailing forum, dude.
I'm open to other suggestions as to how you end up with a whole bridge full of incompetants.
Because as anyone who is not a foolish bigot knows, ships have been running aground in various ways for centuries before DEI existed, and it's only dishonest people who claim that DEI is a factor when there is no evidence at all that it was a factor, or the only available evidence is that it was not a factor.
A classic case was the Honda Pt disaster, when no less than nine (yes, 9) USN destroyers ran aground and seven were lost. That was in 1923, well before DEI existed. Or one can look at the situation when a British naval ship led a Russian convoy onto a British minefield, or the 1974 Hobart start when Bumblebee III hit Sow and Pigs, or the HMS Nottingham hitting a rock off Lord Howe Island, or USS Guardian running aground, Costa Concordia's sinking, or literally thousands of incidents where fully-crewed ships hit the bottom when they should not have. The simple fact is that ships run aground even when they have a bridge with competent people aboard.
When thousands upon thousands of vessels have been running around for thousands of years before DEI existed only the most bigoted and illogical of people would bring up DEI as the probable cause of similar incidents time and time again. That is particularly the case when those bigots can't provide the slightest shred of evidence and rely only upon their own prejudice.
RE':I'm open to other suggestions as to how you end up with a whole bridge full of incompetants.
I will give you two suggestions.
The Titanic. Orders given that did not take into consideration unforeseen circumstances (an iceberg).
Gary Malmgren in Shark Bay 1975, "She'll be right, Umff. Sh#t we just ran aground. I thought that you were on lookout!"
One a highly professional master and crew with years of experience.
The other, well, let's not go there.
