A few weeks ago Port Lincoln Yacht Club (PLYC) decided to ban multihulls from the Adelaide to Port Lincoln race. Attempts to reverse the decision have been unsuccessful. No explanation has been offered. Yet we're expected to sail over to Lincoln, but NOT as part of the race, and still compete in the (inshore) regatta. Tell 'em they're dreaming!
Have any reasons been given in confidence? A few people over on Sailing Anarchy are abusing the volunteers who run the race and making up conspiracy theories. That's a bad look.
The conspiracy theory is that a certain monohull owner who sponsors the race wants to get line honours and won't sponsor the race while they go to a multi. However;
1 - the guy who has got the most line honours recently doesn't appear to have any connection with any sponsor as far as I can see; he seems to work in a different industry entirely;
2 - he's been doing the event since the '80s and didn't get a boat with a chance for line honours until about 2008, which would be a very strange thing to do if he was actually aiming for line honours;
3- if he was so concerned about line honours, why did he just get a new boat only 40' long, which would be easy meet for any big boat from Victoria, NSW etc?
4- the other guy to recently get line honours doesn't appear to have any connection with any sponsor as far as I can see; he seems to work in a different industry entirely.
The conspiracy theory doesn't seem to apply. The "they hate multis" theory doesn't seem to apply because they recently held the multi nats. Maybe it's an insurance issue? Maybe they have legal advice about boats that don't self right? I wouldn't agree with any legal advice that said that they would be legally liable for a multi that went over but some lawyers or insurers may give that advice and the club is in a real pickle if they ignored any such advice.
It's not a big club, maybe they just need to simplify the race as much as possible? After all, multi clubs "ban" boats too and that appears to be fine with multi sailors; NZMYC and the trans-Atlantic races ban proas, for example.
Maybe they just decided to run a race for monos, just like other sailing clubs run races just for cats, windsurfers, skiffs, sportsboats etc? Maybe they just decided to run an event just for one type of sports equipment just like car racing clubs run races just for one style or make of car, just like cycling clubs run events just for one or two types of bicycle and not all of them, just like surfing clubs hold events just for longboards, yada yada yada?
Seems a bit Gutless to ban Multis with no reason given!!??
Of course conspiracy theories will come out after a situation like this?
The whole multi self righting issue is so out of date its not funny! The Route Du Rhum is about to start in France and all the big money is spent on Multi's, Mono's are "Also rans"
If it is an insurance issue Why keep it secret?
If it is a safety issue Why keep it a secret?
Might have something to do with a number of potentially fatal (MOB) situations from multis in the last few years but that is only a guess...
I do however note that MOB can happen to a mono just as easily but from my knowledge haven't yet (recently anyway)
Select to expand quotehangtime said..
Seems a bit Gutless to ban Multis with no reason given!!??
Of course conspiracy theories will come out after a situation like this?
The whole multi self righting issue is so out of date its not funny! The Route Du Rhum is about to start in France and all the big money is spent on Multi's, Mono's are "Also rans"
If it is an insurance issue Why keep it secret?
If it is a safety issue Why keep it a secret?
I don't have time for conspiracy theories, but the lack of an explanation is just silly, if not rude.
I totally agree that whole non self righting "issue" is horribly out of date, which I pointed out in my letter to the organisers. In case you're interested, here is what I wrote:
drive.google.com/file/d/0B6krik3dYe13dk03ZGd1Tm51emc/view
Select to expand quotehangtime said..
Seems a bit Gutless to ban Multis with no reason given!!??
Of course conspiracy theories will come out after a situation like this?
The whole multi self righting issue is so out of date its not funny! The Route Du Rhum is about to start in France and all the big money is spent on Multi's, Mono's are "Also rans"
If it is an insurance issue Why keep it secret?
If it is a safety issue Why keep it a secret?
"Of course conspiracy theories will come out" - when conspiracy theories seem as silly (as far as I can find out) as the ones that have been put out about this race, surely there's evidence that people are just looking for a reason to complain and abuse others.
"after a situation like this" - the situation is that a sporting club has decided to restrict entries into one race to one general form of gear - just like catamaran clubs do. Just like NZ and Queensland multihull clubs do. Just like skiff clubs do, windsurfer clubs do, kiting clubs do, sportscar clubs do, bicycle clubs do.
If every other sporting club can restrict entries to an event to one general type of kit, why can't sailing clubs? And why is it OK for their to be specialist multi events but people howl when there are specialist mono events?
"Seems a bit gutless" - No wonder it's hard to find volunteers to run events, when they get slagged off by people on forums. Who would bother putting in countless hours in running an event just to get called "gutless"?
"The Route de Rhum is about to start" - What is the relevance of who is spending what money in a race the other side of the world? And if you can have a race just for singlehanders (like the RdR) why can't you have a race just for monos? Why is it OK to have a race that bans boats under 39' (like the RdR) but not OK to have a race just for monos?
"Monos are also rans" - if that's true, then why shouldn't a club that is mainly a monohull club stop the boats owned by their members from also becoming also rans in their own race? One of the reasons people have clubs is so that the gear they like remains competitive and isn't relegated to the ranks of the "also rans".
Clubs that run races for motorbikes ban fast cars to stop the motorbikes becoming "also rans". Clubs for Hobies run regattas just for Hobies to stop the Hobies being "also rans" by being beaten by A Class cats and Tornadoes. Clubs for shorthanded sailing run races just for shorthanded boats to stop shorthanded boats being "also rans" by being beaten by fully crewed boats.
"If it is an insurance issue, why keep it a secret?". The race is sponsored by Club Marine. Last year Ian Farrier said on SA "Club Marine has insured my designs for many years they recently started to reject too many applications. Some rejections as reported by owners appeared to have no logic so I contacted Club Marine to find out why. However, even though I have now specifically asked them seven (7) times to state exactly what any problem is, and one rejected owner even signed a privacy waiver, they still refuse to say why."
So we know that CM refuse to insure many multis, and they don't want to say why. It's possible that these attitudes flowed onto the Lincoln race. It's possible that Club Marine have decided to stop insuring multis and feel that they are a risk and could be criticised for sponsoring them but refusing to insure them. They may have had legal advice about deciding not to insure them and if this is the case the legal advice is often kept confidential - if they start giving out information on the advice they received they may lose the normal lawyer/client privilege and that could be very costly. The alternative is that their actuaries have done the sums and decided that insuring offshore racing multis doesn't make economic sense, but as a commercial organisation they feel that they have no obligation to reveal their inner financial details.
This is conjecture but it makes sense and given that there is at least one reasonable explanation, slinging abuse at hard-working volunteers appears to be poor form - especially when all they are doing is what many multihull clubs also do, which is to just run events for one general type of boat.
Select to expand quotescruzin said..
hangtime said..
Seems a bit Gutless to ban Multis with no reason given!!??
Of course conspiracy theories will come out after a situation like this?
The whole multi self righting issue is so out of date its not funny! The Route Du Rhum is about to start in France and all the big money is spent on Multi's, Mono's are "Also rans"
If it is an insurance issue Why keep it secret?
If it is a safety issue Why keep it a secret?
I don't have time for conspiracy theories, but the lack of an explanation is just silly, if not rude.
I totally agree that whole non self righting "issue" is horribly out of date, which I pointed out in my letter to the organisers. In case you're interested, here is what I wrote:
drive.google.com/file/d/0B6krik3dYe13dk03ZGd1Tm51emc/view
The lack of an explanation could well be because, as noted above;
1- Club Marine, a race sponsor, has a policy of not explaining why it won't insure some types. They may not want to sponsor a race that allows a type they won't insure, because they feel it would look bad and give people leverage to complain about them- they are dealing with some conspiracy theorists after all.
2- The "no explanations" policy could be due to legal and business reasons.
3- If they let PLYC explain why they aren't sponsoring multis then the information that Marine Hull is trying to keep confidential will come out or become a source for an argument they don't want to spend time and money on.
If my theory is correct (and it may not be, but it seems to be based on a lot more evidence than the conspiracy theories) then PLYC have said all that they would be allowed to say. The volunteers are in a cleft stick- they just have to cop it, just like RPAYC copped insults about the fact that some people hadn't read the Blue Book and noted that they would have to give a NA or engineer's certificate to be allowed to do the Coffs Harbour race.
No wonder clubs would be reluctant to foster multi racing when they cop abuse whether they ban the boats or let them in.
I'm NOT saying I support anything CM do, but the point is that there could well be perfectly reasonable reasons for the fact that PLYC is not letting multis in. Given that they stress that they would like to see multis at the inshore races, that they have welcomed them before, that a prominent member raced one last year, that they used to have a Cobra cat class, and that they say they took their decisions for reasons outside their control, the odds would appear to be that they are telling the truth and that they have been forced to make the decision and to withhold the reason.
4- To be honest, since the 1960s some multihull sailors have been abusing and insulting mono sailors EVEN WHEN THE MULTIS ARE ALLOWED TO RACE ON EVEN TERMS IN THE SAME RACE. I stopped racing multis offshore because I was sick of the way my skipper continually abused and insulted the monos we sailed against, and that was not long ago.
Given the abuse some of the offshore multi guys come out with, and their conspiracy theories which often look pretty damn silly, one can see why PLYC and MH decided not to get involved in an argument.
I'm going off to look at a new multi tomorrow with the hope of buying it so I'm not a one-eyed monohuller, but when I sit in both camps it seems that something (perhaps the way people like Piver went overboard promoting their boats in the early days, and the way the mono guys may have reacted) has lead to many multi guys falsely believing there is bias against them. It's a pity because IMHO that belief really sets back the popularity of multi racing.
Oh, and if we get the new multi we'll probably race it sometimes in multi-only events, just as people sail in kite-only events, windsurfer-only events, etc. Mixed events are great in their own way but so are specialist events - so why can't mono sailors have events just for their type of craft like everyone else does?
PS - whoops, that should have been "easy meat" in my earlier post.
I don't think insurance is the issue, at least in general. Although Club Marine was a sponsor, there was no requirement to insure with them. I had no problem whatsoever insuring my cat last year with Jardine Lloyd Thompson (JLT).
Even if insurance _were_ an issue, insurers could always choose to differentiate between racing multis, which are often sailed on the bleeding edge, vs. cruising multihulls, which are sailed much more conservatively.
Also, there were already different race divisions to accommodate different vessel types, so it's not as if monos and multis were even competing in the same racing division.
I may not have been clear enough - insurance per se may not have been the problem. I was wondering whether the fact that a race sponsor apparently refuses to cover tris may have lead them to ask PLYC to keep multis out, perhaps because they were concerned about safety or that it may have been a bad look to sponsor boats they would not insure.
It's just an idea, and I'm NOT saying that I agree with the decision if that was what it was. However, the point is that it's not hard to see that the club may NOT have caused the problem at all. Surely it can't be because the PLYC is anti-multi because they hosted the Nats, and there's not a shred of evidence to say that any monohull owner was behind the "ban".
When we get down to it, these volunteers have been giving their time and effort to help multis for years - and as soon as they decided not to give any more of their free time and effort (perhaps for a very good reason) they get abused for it. After all the time they have given to sailing and to multis, couldn't you guys have the courtesy to assume that they are NOT behaving like dills and that they are honest and truthful when they say "we don't like doing this but we have to, and we apologise for it".
Re "it's not as if monos and multis were even competing in the same division."
Sure, but when just about every other form of sailing craft (including offshore multis, beach cats, windsurfers, skiffs, kites, dinghies, shorthanders, sportsboats, trailables, etc) can run regattas just for its own type, why can't monos? We enjoy going to regattas just for beach cats where we all just talk cats - why can't monohull sailors have regattas just for monos? Just about every other type of sporting equipment can have its own event, but for some unknown reason monos cop criticism when they do just that.
The funny thing is that even among the multis there are disputes and splinter groups - the QMYC was formed after the cruising multis found they couldn't operate as part of the beach cat association. The 14 foot cats in NSW have claimed that they are treated unfairly when compared to the bigger beach cats. The proas are banned by some multi organisations.
Doesn't all this prove that running events for more than one type is often too difficult, and that the offshore multis just need to do what just about every other type does, and have their own association and their own events?
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
Doesn't all this prove that running events for more than one type is often too difficult, and that the offshore multis just need to do what just about every other type does, and have their own association and their own events?
That's logical enough, but here in SA the challenge may be one of scale though. SA is not Queensland. There are only 3 clubs with a significant offshore sailing community, namely CYCSA, RSAYC, and PLYC. Multihulls are still a small minority (part of the problem), albeit growing in popularity. Multis aside though, offshore sailing as a whole is not a growing sport in SA. It seems many sailors are intimidated by the distances and/or sailing conditions. For example, I sail the 60 nautical miles from Adelaide to Kangaroo Island half a dozen times a year, and it's rare to see another vessel doing the same.
If the existing clubs don't support events for multis, then it will likely encourage fragmentation. Sadly, I think offshore sailing as a whole will suffer in SA.
