Hi,
I have been trawling through the forum for some weeks, watching videos and devising a plan to paint the deck of my 1972 Northerner 28ft (Compass predecessor) which I bought a few months ago. The paint is tired, some repairs are needed and the substrate is showing through in many spots.
I would have liked to res-erect this topic by Cabron as its one I have been going off but SeaBreeze tells me it too old. www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Painting-Deck
I have never painted anything in my life. So I am just looking for some feedback on my plan so far which is below. Im currently practicing a few things on the anchor locker hatch (see images)
General Plan: Plan is to fix holes, sand, two coats of an undercoat (including where antislip areas will be), two coats of single pack Topcoat (excluding where antislip areas will be). Then do Kiwigrip.
Detailed Plan
1. Fix dings and spider cracks by dremilling out and filling with International Epifill. Sand flat.
2. Remove staunchions (and fill all holes ready to replace all staunchions with new ones) and remove other deck hardware where possible. Tape everything remaining up.
3. Wash down everything with Diggers 4L Wax And Grease Remover. Rinse with fresh water.
4. Sand deck -
4.1 Sand deck with 80 grit and Ryobi orbital sander. Only sand paint down but not down to substrate.
4.2 Sand diamond pattern grit down to near flat but not so the substrate is showing.
4.3 Do final sand with finer grit (~180 grit) sand paper with orbital sander.
5. Wash with fresh water
6. First Undercoat - Paint with International Pre-Kote over entire deck (including future antislip sections).
7. Sand with 180 grit with orbital sander.
8. Second Undercoat - Paint with International Pre-Kote over entire deck (including future antislip sections).
9. Sand with 180 grit with orbital sander.
10. Mask off antislip areas
11. First Topcoat - Paint deck (excluding future areas of antislip) with International Toplac (white)
12. Sand with 180 grit with orbital sander.
13. Second Topcoat - Paint deck (excluding future areas of antislip) with International Toplac (white)
14. Peel off tape and retape for antislip areas.
15. Do antislip areas with kiwi grip.
16. Peel off tape.
17. Replace deck hardware.
Questions
1. Do I need to use a primer first? If so what would be a suitable one (i.e. International Yacht Primer)? How much do I need to sand off the current paint?
2. Do I need to go all the way to the substrate or is it sufficient to leave the current paint in place? In many locations the current paint is very thick and sanding all the way to the substrate will take a lot of sanding. In other areas the current paint is thin and the substrate is already showing. See attached images.
try not to sand through the gel coat only use 80 grit for pre sand if you go to fine you start to lose adhesion i would use 2 packs for undercoats as this will seal up the porous surfaces better everything else is fine though my preference is always 2 pack topcoats as well as they will give better longevity but you may find the single packs easier to apply
Got to go with boty and the two pack, harder to apply but the pros outweigh the cons. If you are going to paint at this time of year you need to shield the paint from the dew as it will kill any gloss stone dead. I posted a blog called Painting Perfection some time ago and it will show you what we did painting the boat on a swing mooring. 'Perfection' was the name of the twin pack paint we used. Even after all this time the finish still looks like new. Good luck.
Here's the album of what I did to my old boat: imgur.com/a/04EWOB5
Note that particularly with that boat, I was pretty rough and ready. Did all the work on the mooring by myself, with very limited skills (I'm useless with my hands, unless it's on a computer). Didn't even bother to remove most of the hardware, just taped it up. I'd bought the boat for $365 off eBay, so figured I couldn't really stuff it up too much, but I ended up being VERY pleased with the result.
Paint wise, I used some Norglass 1 pot undercoat/primer anywhere it needed it, then Norglass Weatherfast satin white for the areas that weren't getting Kiwigrip (didn't want those parts of the deck to be too slippery). The other thing I found was that after the Kiwigrip dried, it was a little too grippy and spikey, so I gave it a quick/very light pass over with the sander with an 80 grit paper on it. Just enough to knock the peaks off. But that's more because we were sitting on those parts, not walking all the time. Worked out perfect for me.
Naturally, the boat was written off in an accident a couple of months after finishing it. 
Select to expand quoteboty said..
try not to sand through the gel coat only use 80 grit for pre sand if you go to fine you start to lose adhesion i would use 2 packs for undercoats as this will seal up the porous surfaces better everything else is fine though my preference is always 2 pack topcoats as well as they will give better longevity but you may find the single packs easier to apply
Thanks.
I had thought that there was no gel coat on the boat. I thought tt seems like it is just one thick layer of paint. The shipwright mentioned this was the case for the hull. But I could be wrong.
Select to expand quotesamsturdy said..
Got to go with boty and the two pack, harder to apply but the pros outweigh the cons. If you are going to paint at this time of year you need to shield the paint from the dew as it will kill any gloss stone dead. I posted a blog called Painting Perfection some time ago and it will show you what we did painting the boat on a swing mooring. 'Perfection' was the name of the twin pack paint we used. Even after all this time the finish still looks like new. Good luck.
Thanks. I found your Painting Perfection Update but not the original post. Looks great. Let me know if you can find your original post as I would like to have a read.
One reason I was thinking of going with a Single Pack was that I thought I couldnt use a Two-Pack if the original paint was single pack. And I have no idea what the original paint is.... Also a single pack just sounds a lot easier.
Also... would I need to use a primer or go straight for the Pre-Kote?
Original article from Sam
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Painting-Perfection?page=1
If you follow your plan it'll be a Mickey Mouse job and should look great, but will take a long time and the novelty will probably wear off after a week.
If I was doing it, I'd wash everything down, remove the deck hardware that I could, give the areas that aren't non-slip a light sand, then a 2 pack undercoat, then a light sand, a couple of coats of top coat, when that is fully dried/cured, tape off the non-slip areas and paint them with the norglass non slip paint.
probably wouldn't be as nice a job as your plan but it would be a hell of a lot quicker and easier.
cheers
I wouldn't bother sanding and undercoating where antislip is going, presuming your going Kiwi. Just clean it up, remove anything loose. SS wire brush and wash.
2 pack is much stronger, and will be better long term, however harder to apply, If you do go 1 pack, you'll probably need more than 2 coats, and an orbital sander will be too harsh between coats... sand by hand lightly. Roll and Tip works ok, gotta work fast, and use thinner accordingly.
You can mix undercoat with topcoat on 2nd undercoat, helps with colour, and builds layers.
Pick a good weather window, and don't rush.... and just when you think you've had enough.... that means you're about 1/2 way through the job...
Select to expand quotejbarnes85 said..boty said..
try not to sand through the gel coat only use 80 grit for pre sand if you go to fine you start to lose adhesion i would use 2 packs for undercoats as this will seal up the porous surfaces better everything else is fine though my preference is always 2 pack topcoats as well as they will give better longevity but you may find the single packs easier to apply
Thanks.
I had thought that there was no gel coat on the boat. I thought tt seems like it is just one thick layer of paint. The shipwright mentioned this was the case for the hull. But I could be wrong.
that's definitely gel coat
Select to expand quoteboty said..jbarnes85 said..boty said..
try not to sand through the gel coat only use 80 grit for pre sand if you go to fine you start to lose adhesion i would use 2 packs for undercoats as this will seal up the porous surfaces better everything else is fine though my preference is always 2 pack topcoats as well as they will give better longevity but you may find the single packs easier to apply
Thanks.
I had thought that there was no gel coat on the boat. I thought tt seems like it is just one thick layer of paint. The shipwright mentioned this was the case for the hull. But I could be wrong.
that's definitely gel coat
Ok thanks. Is the white the gel coat and the cream the paint?
Ok. I have been convinced and I am now looking at going both a two pack undercoat and top coat and will use the international perfection products.
Select to expand quotejbarnes85 said..
Ok. I have been convinced and I am now looking at going both a two pack undercoat and top coat and will use the international perfection products.
JB, I went to the boat yesterday and took it for a run. A little job I did was to wash the bird crap out of the cockpit, even after all this time the paint is like new despite the wear and tear that cockpits get. Perfection is really tough stuff, if you use it you certainly won't be having to paint the boat every year.
Hi all, great thread and very timely as I am about to undertake painting my yacht as well.
Couple of questions that haven't been answered above that may aid others in the same situation.
1. In sanding the areas with the diamond anti-slip pattern on deck, what did people use that was most effective? I am thinking a wire brush by hand but is there any power tool attachment anyone recommends that will make shorter work of this.
2. I would prefer to spray the boat but I can't afford to get overspray on anything around it, it is possible to move it to another yard but at some effort, so is it possible to use a brush and roller and still get a decent finish? If so can anyone recommend the products and tools required to do so? Or should I bite the bullet and move the yacht.
3. This is a trailer sailer and I am looking to redo the bottom as well, but as it lives on a trailer I can't see much point using actual anti foul paint or is this still the better option?
Last last year I bought an oldish trailer sailer to do a regatta later this year. If the event does not go ahead, I am thinking about doing a repaint on the deck. So this timely thread has now started me thinking about the options that JBarnes & Jake are bringing up. You will both probably start before me, but I am happy to swap notes with you both. And post photos. Might try to get some before photos this weekend if the weather is good. The photos and info from Sam (and his very talented missus) are very inspiring.
We actually started working on the interior last weekend, most of which has now been removed (sorry, no before photos). I will make a big effort to put up some pics as we go from here in the "what did you do today" section.
Select to expand quoteEC31 said..
Last last year I bought an oldish trailer sailer to do a regatta later this year. If the event does not go ahead, I am thinking about doing a repaint on the deck. So this timely thread has now started me thinking about the options that JBarnes & Jake are bringing up. You will both probably start before me, but I am happy to swap notes with you both. And post photos. Might try to get some before photos this weekend if the weather is good. The photos and info from Sam (and his very talented missus) are very inspiring.
We actually started working on the interior last weekend, most of which has now been removed (sorry, no before photos). I will make a big effort to put up some pics as we go from here in the "what did you do today" section.
Thanks. Ill share my photos as I do it. I have to repair some stanchions and other deck repairs first which I am starting with this weekend.
I had bought some Norglass paint at whitworths (as it was cheaper than the international paint) but I think I might return it at invest in the International Perfection paints.
Defo do not use an orbital between any coats. Light hand scuff will be fine. 2 part all the way
Day five and will hopefully get the first coat on tomorrow.
Day 1 - removed stanchions and other things. Jeepers what I found under some stanchions. Lots of silicon. Many holes. Day 2 - filled stanchion holes. Laid glass under many stanchions. Day 3 - sanded off glass laid under stanchions. Then ground down some issues at the stern where the deck joins the hull. Patched these holes. Patched other little holes. Long day Day 4 - sanded off glass at the stern. Very happy with my work. Getting tired now. Cleaned boat with de-waxer. Patch more little holes with Epifill. Day 5 - early start at Bunnings to buy new sanded. sanding. Sanding. Sanding. I now own three sanders. Washed with Altex pre painting cleaner which is amazing stuff.
Select to expand quotejbarnes85 said..
Lots of silicon.
Please, please, please, do not replace the silicon with more silicon. You'll understand why, when you try to get rid of the #$%%ing stuff. Replace with Fixtech or Sika products.
+1 Fixtech - 100% Aust owned, and also equivalent or better than the imported product.
www.fixtech.com.au/
Select to expand quoteAchernar said..jbarnes85 said..
Lots of silicon.
Please, please, please, do not replace the silicon with more silicon. You'll understand why, when you try to get rid of the #$%%ing stuff. Replace with Fixtech or Sika products.
It's all been replaced with epoxy. I have new stanchions with a new hole pattern going in.
So. I have fixed holes, removed stanchions, epoxied up the stern and under stanchions, done the primer and then an undercoat and now I have been foiled by bad weather so need to wait a few days before doing the two over coats and the kiwi-grip over the diamond pattern grip.
I have to say I am so far blown away by how good the boat looks with just the undercoat. I have attached some photos of the boat before I started so you can see the difference. Lots of hard work and it takes a lot longer than I expected.
One regret I have is I sanded the diamond grip in preperation for the kiwi-grip and only put a primer over these areas (no undercoat). In hindsight I should have painted it and just added some sand or some additive to make it more grip, which was recommended by the International rep.
looks great but i would varnish before non skid so as not to worry about spills or bleed through on new work
Select to expand quoteboty said..
looks great but i would varnish before non skid so as not to worry about spills or bleed through on new work
Good advice. Sigh another task to add to the job...
Your non skid areas are not a problem JB. Get yourself a product called Intergrit from Whitworths, put on one coat of undercoat and sprinkle with Intergrit as per instructions, when dry, remove excess Intergrit and put on ONE coat of topcoat...job done.
Select to expand quotesamsturdy said..
Your non skid areas are not a problem JB. Get yourself a product called Intergrit from Whitworths, put on one coat of undercoat and sprinkle with Intergrit as per instructions, when dry, remove excess Intergrit and put on ONE coat of topcoat...job done.
Dang. Its too late now. I had planned to use the Kiwi grip to cover up the epoxy jobs I had done under the staunchions. I had planned to use Kiwi grip so I didnt do a tidy/clean finish to them and so that would be very visible if I took the intergrip option.....
Select to expand quoteboty said..
looks great but i would varnish before non skid so as not to worry about spills or bleed through on new work
Just a questions about varnishing. The bulwarks and hatch need varnish. The varnish on the toe rail is good and thick except for some small patches of wear (possibly from dock lines). Having never varnished, would I need to strip all the varnish off the toe rail or can I just touch up the spots of wear?
I would definitely paint first, protect, then varnish. Cover join with sikaflex to stop water ingress.
varnish can chip, crack and come away. This can therefore lift paint with it if the paint is the top layer.
i would however strip the varnish along the paint edge before you apply your top coat of paint.
properly applied 3m blue tape and you won't have any varnish bleed through. If you do though it's easily removed with a razor blade.
Select to expand quotejbarnes85 said..boty said..
looks great but i would varnish before non skid so as not to worry about spills or bleed through on new work
Just a questions about varnishing. The bulwarks and hatch need varnish. The varnish on the toe rail is good and thick except for some small patches of wear (possibly from dock lines). Having never varnished, would I need to strip all the varnish off the toe rail or can I just touch up the spots of wear?
depends on system but more than likely you should be able to feather in and repair then minimum 2 coats when varnishing over bare timber with traditional varnish oil base 13 coats , allwood 5 coats polyurethane oil base 2 coats every year allwood every 5 years
Select to expand quotejbarnes85 said..boty said..
looks great but i would varnish before non skid so as not to worry about spills or bleed through on new work
Just a questions about varnishing. The bulwarks and hatch need varnish. The varnish on the toe rail is good and thick except for some small patches of wear (possibly from dock lines). Having never varnished, would I need to strip all the varnish off the toe rail or can I just touch up the spots of wear?
That would be a big job to strip all the toe rail varnish off and sand down to bare pristine timber and put at least 3 new coats on - depending on the varnish you are using follow their instructions as regards number of coats, thin the first coat 5%. The result would possibly be a bit better than touching up the wear spots, but probably not by much as for the age of the yacht there will surely be some timber blemishes - bruises and bumps etc - which won't be able to be sanded right out. Would suggest you sand the spots of wear - blend sand them into the adjacent varnish - and give them 3 coats and then the whole lot 1 or 2 final coats. Your companionway hatch board could be well worth completely renewing with new ply and full varnishing. But the timber it slides in and the cockpit coaming timber is probably in the same boat as the toerails and best to just touch up the local spots and final full 1-2 coats on the lot.
Select to expand quoter13 said..jbarnes85 said..boty said..
looks great but i would varnish before non skid so as not to worry about spills or bleed through on new work
Just a questions about varnishing. The bulwarks and hatch need varnish. The varnish on the toe rail is good and thick except for some small patches of wear (possibly from dock lines). Having never varnished, would I need to strip all the varnish off the toe rail or can I just touch up the spots of wear?
That would be a big job to strip all the toe rail varnish off and sand down to bare pristine timber and put at least 3 new coats on - depending on the varnish you are using follow their instructions as regards number of coats, thin the first coat 5%. The result would possibly be a bit better than touching up the wear spots, but probably not by much as for the age of the yacht there will surely be some timber blemishes - bruises and bumps etc - which won't be able to be sanded right out. Would suggest you sand the spots of wear - blend sand them into the adjacent varnish - and give them 3 coats and then the whole lot 1 or 2 final coats. Your companionway hatch board could be well worth completely renewing with new ply and full varnishing. But the timber it slides in and the cockpit coaming timber is probably in the same boat as the toerails and best to just touch up the local spots and final full 1-2 coats on the lot.
Great thanks Ill do that. Sounds like a good approach. Any recommendations on what varnish I should use? (I have never varnished anything).
