Select to expand quoteHank1 said..
Epic????
An epic level of a lack of self awareness
Mum used to say " If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all " 
My mum used to say "Be aware of your surroundings and consider how you're conduct could detrimentally impact others"
Possibly some of the most fun and dreamed about foil waves on the planet right there local to cloud break in what could have been a great example to every foiler of where foil drive use is most appropriate and most rewarding.
I think it's important DavidJohn to be honest and speak up when it counts. In this case I think it counts for the future of surf foiling.
Any board / Hank :- For the record , only handful of surfers only and a couple doing step offs conditions weren't ideal .I took the wide clean ups and shouldered the closeouts the surfers left but some of the best rides I've ever had at Cloudbreak . Not once was I inside a surfer even the step off guys . I've proned it Supped & Sup foiled and now Foildrive .I also been Sup foiling when Laird was towing in just the 2 of us . By the end of this session it was just me and I moved to the main take off point , if I wasn't on the Foildrive there is no way I would have been able to get on so early and make it down the face before it started to bowl . There was a boat load of American pros on the Tavi boat cheering me on and all gave me a standing ovation before they left for charging so hard . They also sent videos and text messages to an Aussie mate of mine saying you have to see this guy just charging of Foildrive he is insane , little did they know he was a mate of mine . So when you asked "Why" and I didn't reply it's just because you are just one of same type of negitive people I came across when I first helped introduce Supping , then Sup Foiling ,then tow foiling , then prone / wing foiling & now foil driving . Go back and look into my profile I was a pioneer in everyone one of those genres and a huge promoter here on Seabreeze sharing the stoke , not beating my chest just stating a fact that it's people like you the really kill the stoke on Seabreeze .
I can't wait for any assist product to be banned in QLD and treated like a PWC. it's rare now to have a day without seeing a foil assist product used around the lineup with surfers in it in SE QLD at popular surf breaks. IMO the foil assist crew will get us normal foilers banned otherwise. There's many footage on this site of certain foil assist users doing exactly this.
So I agree with @Anyboard, normal foilers should be pushing with authorities to have foil assist products to be treated like a PWC. I'd sign the petition.
This is killing me , have you actually been to Cloudbreak and seen how large the riding zone is . I was no where near anyone , see anyone in my pics . If you have any knowledge of Cloudbreak the wide sets come in from another angle out wide and clean everyone up . That's what I was riding or the close outs everyone would let roll through. The Foildrive was the ultimate choice this day even the step off guys were getting flogged and hardly any surfers were making it through . That's why everyone packed up and I was the only one out and here you are saying it should be banned . This just sh!ts me to tears . Just sound like the same people who want to ban foiling . Seabreeze is just going down the toilet . How about instead of winging and whining why don't you put some videos or pics together and post something positive . Peace out .
I'm not being negative, just attempting to protect the sport I love and voicing my opinion so I can continue to enjoy it. I cannot control how others interpret my opinion.
I have nothing against the foil assist products, they are a good tool for people who lack the skill to foil the lineup without it (as it really takes the skill out of it in my opinion), or to learn the sport, or for people who lack the strength, fitness to foil without one.
With that said, they should be used responsibly and well away from other people in the lineup including normal foilers, just like a PWC, but from what I see most days is exactly the opposite.
It'd be risky to fork out 8K for one only to find out shortly they'll be banned and you can't use it where you want to.
So I post pics of me at Cloudbreak charging and getting cheered on by the whole crowd and you post " I can't wait for this to get banned " and you say that's not negative. You have to be sh!tting me . You know what's actually going to get foiling banned . It's the pump monkeys pumping laps consistently through the line up and calling people off waves BUT have you ever seen a post from me bitching about it ... No because I'm about Living & Sharing the Stoke not sh!tting on it. What you need to understand all this negative chat is like people posting pics of foil cuts it's just fuel for the let's ban foiling crew. Plus are you saying I'm a person who lacks the skills , fitness or maybe too old to do normal foiling that's why I'm on a Foildrive ??????? I was going to post these pics in another thead but seeing this post got hijacked by #####'s I won't bother .
I guess that was the point and you just proved it piros.
Shameless self promotion, charging cloud break, versus the need for the sport of foiling to set its own standards before regulators do.
if you need to prove something to yourself and efoil cloud break and can do it with no one out there then just enjoy your self achievement.
The criticism is from some of your piers, fellow foilers who have probably foiled with you, concerned about the potential for foil bans resulting from foil drive behaviour and how you might be influencing it. You chose to be an influencer so we are asking for you to set a more responsible example. Not just you but James and Dave etc.
This is what you don't get , if I got to Cloudbreak and there was a big line up I would have moved on , plenty of places near by but it was almost empty and I was riding what no one else was. So who are you to tell me I was irresponsible or doing the wrong thing there . I'm out now your start own thread. Have you actually ever been there to see the actual set up and if anyone has a problem with me they will talk to me personally and not have a whinge behind a keyboard. I'm the most approachable person about foiling but I'm just over this hijacked thread .
ok then prove it, can you post a recent video (footage this week) without the use of the foil drive assist product of you proning or sup foiling at cloud break?
Anyway, the same "foil assist in the lineup" concern is on other popular foiling forums (not by me, other foilers around the world) about the use of foil assist products and the foiling industry self regulating itself before the actual regulators ban the traditional foiling community. If normal foilers have this concern about foil assist products, imagine the conversations happening by the surfing community.
That's me on the Sup foil paddling over the wave and Laird Hamilton towing in (are you going to send him a message and give him sh!t for towing in) Second one me prone foiling under the Tower at Cloudbreak which I was paddling in but only a 3 to 4 foot day . You can't prone paddle in Cloudbreak when it's big on a prone you can only tow or now Foildrive. Don't quite get your point but these pics are 2019 so I've been foiling Cloudbreak along time so don't talk to me about doing the wrong thing there I helped introduce it. The tow crew only come when it's too windy to surf. Sup foiling is hard due to the huge current and it's a major punish if you get caught inside .
Select to expand quotenoepoxy said..
ok then prove it, can you post a video without the use of the foil drive assist product of you proning or sup foiling at cloud break?
Anyway, the same "foil assist in the lineup" concern is on other popular foiling forums (not by me, other foilers around the world) about the use of foil assist products and the foiling industry self regulating itself before the actual regulators ban the traditional foiling community. If normal foilers have this concern about foil assist products, imagine the conversations happening by the surfing community.
You spruik yourself up too champ. How about you show us you prone foiling at your local where you don't pump back through the lineup and catch the set waves out the back then fly through the crowd. As lots of prone foilers do.
I prefer sup foiling and those in my area know who I am and my foiling ability, I have nothing to prove to anyone. I have my gripe with prone foilers pumping through the lineup but I haven't voiced my opinion as less of a concern than foil assist, and it is less accessible for most as it requires a high level of skill, whereas foil assist doesn't. I pay full retail and not into self promoting as nothing to gain from it personally or financially.
If people are saying foil assist is to only catch waves that you can't prone or sup foil into then that implies it belongs in the category of tow foiling, which is used to catch waves you can't by normal foiling.
Therefore the two should be regulated the same, not sure why this isn't understood by the foil assist community. This will mean you have to stay away from any beach that is patrolled by SLSC with flags and obey by PWC rules, and that rules out most of SE QLD spots, Kirra, Greenmount, Currumbin etc.
If you think and behave otherwise then you are putting the normal foiling community at risk, and if you are documenting and publishing your behaviour with a foil assist product in these locations you're a braver man than I am and I wouldn't expect a warm welcome by other foilers. You may be documenting the ban of normal foiling in the lineup for generations and you won't be popular for that.
Sup foiling gives me a way higher wave count than prone, I can prone but chose to sup foil for that reason.
Ha ha I actually know you and have no personal issue with you and have foiled with you too and know your ability compared to mine, we can settle this face to face on your return if you have a personal gripe with me or what I'm saying.
I know you're close to retirement and making the most of your foiling age as you can but don't ruin it for generations of foilers to come.
The foil assist products do not belong in any lineup with normal foilers or surfers, I recommend all foil assist users to stay 200m away from anyone else (normal foilers and surfers) and obey PWC rules before you are regulated too, or worse ruin it for normal foilers and we are all banned.
That rules out the popular SE QLD spots which have an increasing amount of foil assist users in the lineup, they do not belong there...
Well done Rob looks epic. For the fun police I say "up yours" you have no idea what foiling and foil drive opens up and yes the idea is you can ride waves people are not on or away from the impact zone and away from others. If there is the one off idiot abusing it then tune them. That's not what Rob is doing here so I say get off your high horses and get on the water and just do something..
Skateboarding joke video. It easily applies to foiling. For years Foilers have been saying how they're the most approachable group. At the first sign of distress they all freak out.
www.instagram.com/reel/C6braXfLQGl/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
As a Foildrive assist user I have to agree with noepoxy on the point of staying 200mts from any popular break. Surfing is a quiet activity, just the noise of the sea to bother you. But we all hate the jetskis when they arrive just destroying the vibe. I put FD in the same category, not as noisy as a JetSki but just as annoying and with the advantage that FD has you don't need to be in the lineup.
If FD users don't regulate ourselves, the Authorities will regulate it for us. Best to call out bad behaviour before it ruins it for us all. As for Piros, cool pictures, must have been a great trip. I didn't see any other surfers in any pictures so not bothering anyone, nice one
Airsail said it perfectly, and why would you want to be in a lineup.
But there will always be people who will go through the line up 
I haven't got a foil drive but will before summer.
I've seen 'them' catching the sets 200m out past anyone and off before the line up!
GREAT PICTURES PIROS 
When I've seen your videos (and there's plenty) you're not close to surfers, and respect!
Don't worry guys, noepoxy is one of the most frustrated foilers I've ever met 
he's just looking for excuses to not buy a FD himself
As a FDer myself I never go anywhere near surfers. Agree we need to self police.
As for the comment that FD is only for people who lack skills, that's utter rubbish. Just look at Hadou in France, a young 60Kg dude will top prone skills and all he does now is FD. You get more time on the water, bigger workout and thus more stoke 
just another foil activity to add to your foiling repertoire.
Select to expand quotenoepoxy said..
Sup foiling gives me a way higher wave count than prone, I can prone but chose to sup foil for that reason.
Ha ha I actually know you and have no personal issue with you and have foiled with you too and know your ability compared to mine, we can settle this face to face on your return if you have a personal gripe with me or what I'm saying.
I know you're close to retirement and making the most of your foiling age as you can but don't ruin it for generations of foilers to come.
The foil assist products do not belong in any lineup with normal foilers or surfers, I recommend all foil assist users to stay 200m away from anyone else (normal foilers and surfers) and obey PWC rules before you are regulated too, or worse ruin it for normal foilers and we are all banned.
That rules out the popular SE QLD spots which have an increasing amount of foil assist users in the lineup, they do not belong there...
In NSW, e powered foils are already considered a PWC and are bound by the same rules with some exemptions. I think Maritime take a pretty relaxed stance in enforcing any of this but the rules are already defined.
www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/waterways-safety-and-rules/emerging-technologies/motor-powered-hydrofoil-board
The FD marketing team can call it what they like, but as far as the law is concerned foil assist is still an efoil and in NSW must abide by the same regs. ( I have one I'm not against them.). Maybe QLD has different rules.Fiji / cloudy runs more on a system or respect and common sense from what I have seen.
Personally I don't mind being in the water around other e foilers / foil drivers but if I'm paddling, I'll be taking whatever wave I like ;). Likewise if I'm proning near surfers I always let them take any wave they like because there is always another one coming
i think discissuon on self regulation (commonsense use) of foils, e foils and foil drives might be an interesting thread to start and not hijack Prios thread too much (sorry this is post is an unintational hyjack)
This sounds like the argument that took place when horseless carriages (motor vehicles) were becoming common on the roads in the early 1900s. Many people were against them but most saw the advantages. Some, living in the past, thought they were just a fad and would go away.
Progress comes in many forms.
Foil Assist is still quite new and along with foiling there are people who aren't respecting others around them.
We really need to come together as a community and create great etiquette among us and this goes for all disciplines of foiling.
I have seen wingers and proners take the piss. Just simply going too close to others or pumping back through the lineup and taking more than the fair share of waves. I have heard stories of Assist and efoilers doing the same.
We all need our bucket filled when we go out but it's much easier to fill you bucket on one discipline over the other.
For the record I do it all. Surf, Prone, Wing, Assist and Efoil.
Surfing speaks for it's self and when I surf I have the least amount of wave time, then if I am to prone foil I get much more time riding the wave so with that in mind I always give way to the surfers as I know at the end of a session I would still had more time riding a wave. I will literally call surfers onto a wave I am riding and pull off my self.
I don't efoil around anyone except for other efoilers and respect the PWC rules as the efoils are heavier, and can travel in any direction with speed not just on a wave so you really need to look around more.
I also use the proto AMP mast which I treat very much like an efoil except it is much lighter and when heading back out to the back you really just set a straight line and don't carve like you can on an efoil. I would never use this in a lineup as the whole point is to get away from the crowd.
The AMP jet is the one assist I treat a little more like a prone as it feels the most like a prone. People don't get there back up as they can't see the motor or even know that I have an assist. I use the jet for it's intended purpose, take off on waves that no one else can take off on. That doesn't mean take off earlier than anyone else so I can take all the waves. It means I can sit a good 50m wide of a crowed break and not be close to anyone. These would be breaks that are too busy that I would take the AMP Jet out over the Prone as I don't like taking off on a busy break with a prone but the AMP Jet Allows me to take of so wide that even a Mal rider couldn't take off on the inside and make it out to where I am siting. I am just riding all by myself so wide that I am not annoying anyone. I have had many surfers pull me up at the end of a session asking why other proners don't foil where I am and how the hell do I paddle into such fat waves. After finding out I have a jet in the board they all think it's brilliant!
When it's just me and a couple of mates at a break and they are proning and I am on the AMP Jet I give them priority every day of the week. Non power should always have Priority over powered.
I don't want foiling to be banned anywhere. So if we all take a step back and use each discipline for it's intended advantages we can continue to enjoy this incredible sport. Be more repectfull that anyone else out there no matter what foil you are on, you are most likely going to have you bucket filled way more than the other people in the lineup.
I am not saying I have seen everyone of Piros Vids but the ones I have seen he is always miles away from everyone else so I believe he is using the assist for it's intended purpose. Just because he used it at cloudbreak doesn't mean he went remotely close to anyone. He assessed the conditions and crowed as far as I can tell used it for it's intended purpose.
Select to expand quoteactivechris said..
Foil Assist is still quite new and along with foiling there are people who aren't respecting others around them.
We really need to come together as a community and create great etiquette among us and this goes for all disciplines of foiling.
I have seen wingers and proners take the piss. Just simply going too close to others or pumping back through the lineup and taking more than the fair share of waves. I have heard stories of Assist and efoilers doing the same.
We all need our bucket filled when we go out but it's much easier to fill you bucket on one discipline over the other.
For the record I do it all. Surf, Prone, Wing, Assist and Efoil.
Surfing speaks for it's self and when I surf I have the least amount of wave time, then if I am to prone foil I get much more time riding the wave so with that in mind I always give way to the surfers as I know at the end of a session I would still had more time riding a wave. I will literally call surfers onto a wave I am riding and pull off my self.
I don't efoil around anyone except for other efoilers and respect the PWC rules as the efoils are heavier, and can travel in any direction with speed not just on a wave so you really need to look around more.
I also use the proto AMP mast which I treat very much like an efoil except it is much lighter and when heading back out to the back you really just set a straight line and don't carve like you can on an efoil. I would never use this in a lineup as the whole point is to get away from the crowd.
The AMP jet is the one assist I treat a little more like a prone as it feels the most like a prone. People don't get there back up as they can't see the motor or even know that I have an assist. I use the jet for it's intended purpose, take off on waves that no one else can take off on. That doesn't mean take off earlier than anyone else so I can take all the waves. It means I can sit a good 50m wide of a crowed break and not be close to anyone. These would be breaks that are too busy that I would take the AMP Jet out over the Prone as I don't like taking off on a busy break with a prone but the AMP Jet Allows me to take of so wide that even a Mal rider couldn't take off on the inside and make it out to where I am siting. I am just riding all by myself so wide that I am not annoying anyone. I have had many surfers pull me up at the end of a session asking why other proners don't foil where I am and how the hell do I paddle into such fat waves. After finding out I have a jet in the board they all think it's brilliant!
When it's just me and a couple of mates at a break and they are proning and I am on the AMP Jet I give them priority every day of the week. Non power should always have Priority over powered.
I don't want foiling to be banned anywhere. So if we all take a step back and use each discipline for it's intended advantages we can continue to enjoy this incredible sport. Be more repectfull that anyone else out there no matter what foil you are on, you are most likely going to have you bucket filled way more than the other people in the lineup.
I am not saying I have seen everyone of Piros Vids but the ones I have seen he is always miles away from everyone else so I believe he is using the assist for its intended purpose. Just because he used it at cloudbreak doesn't mean he went remotely close to anyone. He assessed the conditions and crowed as far as I can tell used it for its intended purpose.
Lots of thought went into this post and I agree with your sentiment. It really needs its own thread. Please repost in an appropriately titled thread. I think we are devaluing Piros thread by talking about powered dos and don't here.
