Could anyone help me understand the differences between downwind specific SUP foil boards and more dedicated SUP surf foil boards? It seems like dedicated SUP surf foil boards (e.g. Kalama E3) tend to be shorter and wider perhaps for more lateral stability? Most youtube videos I see of SUP surf foiling involve boards shorter and wider than the downwind foil boards.
Does it still make sense to get a large downwind SUP foil board to go out and trying to learn how to paddle on it and catch some waves in some small surf? Nearly all of the youtube content on downwind SUP foil boards focuses on down-winding or light-wind winging and I don't see many examples or discussion of using these boards to learn SUP foil surfing.
I have been winging for over 2 years and am thinking that getting some form of a SUP foil board could be a fun way to go surf foiling on days when the wind is not there. I did try prone on my wing board and managed to catch a couple waves, but find it stressful to try not to hit any surfers in the line up. Also I find prone paddling exhaustion a big limiting factor in how many waves I can catch and am hoping that with SUP paddling is a more efficient way cover more distance and maybe catch waves a bit earlier / further out on the shoulder. Also a plus that I might feel a bit less like shark bait without having my arms and legs sitting in the water the whole time.
Curious about the modern narrow downwind SUP boards because they could also be nice for my light wind wing sessions and also for someday attempting to learn to downwind, but my near term priority would be to get a board I could use to try to learn how to SUP foil surf in small waves.
Wide = stable good for beginners. Slow
Narrow = fast good for downwinding and catching small bumps. Hard to stand on
Long = stable (wide) and fast (narrow)
Short = manoeuvrable but slow and unstable
for a beginner long and wide is good but you soon grow out of that stage so either borrow or buy a cheap long wide board to learn on then go from there.
I SUP surf a downwind shape board 7'10 x 19 x 110L
It's incredibly easy to paddle onto waves so wave count is high, it's surprisingly manoeuvrable and if I'm high up on the mast it's not a bad pump (not comparable to prone board pump though) Another random bonus I've found to this shape board is just how quick it paddles prone so if I need to quickly get out of the impact zone you can generate some good speed paddling it prone.
Having said that the more I get into SUP surfing (and the more I accept I'm never going to bother with downwinding until the need to shuttle in a car is gone) I do think there is a more optimal shape for the surf.
I do occasionally have issues tapping the tail of the board on the surface and seeing as you are taking off in areas with more energy than a traditional downwind bump I don't think you need all of that length for ultimate paddle speed.
If I was building a board from scratch now knowing what I know I think I'd end up somewhere around 6'6 x 22 @95L but it's hard to commit without many opportunities to confirm how it would be for stability and paddling on the wave and ultimately how much "better" it feels to surf
As for winging, I've winged downwind boards a couple of times, yes they do the job but I wouldn't exactly call it "fun" it does feel like a lot of board! For reference my dedicated wing board is 5'10 x 20 @80L
Conditions play a part, if you have a steepish takeoff section a shorter wider board might be better. If it's fat/rolling waves, a DW type board can get going incredibly early and allow you to catch waves that are nowhere near breaking
All good information above. But I do differ a little with some of it. This is all my opinion. Prone surfing is not an option for me because of shoulder injuries so I can only SUP foil surf. I have to use a paddle unfortunately.
A lot of it also depends on where you are and what kind of waves you are going to be riding. If you are going to riding dreamy looking waves that look like the ones from DRC (what a great spot) and the youtube videos, you can problaby get away with something smaller and narrower. If you're going to be riding choppier type waves you may want something wider. Are you gonna be riding a beach break type wave, maybe a little shorter. Or riding an outside sandbar / reef type waves where a little extra length could get you more speed and earlier entry on to foil.
I agree that no one really making any type of sup surf foil boards. what is you r weight. me 88kg. What is your sup experience. I surf a combination of outer sandbars and some beach breaks. I do not do any DW wind runs for the same reasons DRC mentioned. But would eventually like to do it. A lot of the time with some chop mixed in. I learned on a longer rectangular shape hypernut and had a blast on it and it was good because I could apply a lot of power and get up on the foil in the surf. Then a smaller rectangular shape. Then tried a DW wind board shape. Wow. The rectangular shape boards felt like I was pulling an anchor. Board was 21.5 wide but in chop and moving currents while waiting for waves it absolutely sucked. Needed glass conditions which was like 10-20% of the time. Sold it and got the Naish 7'4 x 25 x 125L DW board thinking it would be great compromise and it worked great. Loved it. Have moved to the Jimmy lewis Twisted V at 8'6 x 22 x 136L. Also works great. Being a little longer I had to adjust to swinging it around when turning to catch waves. Through me off a little til I got used to it. I think the bottom shape has a lot to do with the stability as much as width. Both of these boards have have wider flat areas vs more round shape on the performance wing or DW boards.
I have not found a lot of custom options in the US. Still looking because the though has gone through my mind as to what I would get for a custom. I think it would be in the 7 -7'6 range to keep my paddle speed and maybe 24" or so wide with some of that width going further back to have some stability in chop and 120-130L. the bottom would be fairly flat with sharper rails. It does not seem like there is a huge market for the main companies to make dedicated sup foil surf boards. I have not used either of these for winging but I know they could be used. Don't know how much performance you would get out them. Definitely light wind stuff.
Here is something that will see all over when people start the sup foil questions about DW boards. (Not bashing anyone here) But the immediate answers are "don't go more than 20" wide" without knowing anything about a person experience, age, location, weight, etc. Yes I completely agree a narrower board will paddle faster. But there are several videos of people downwinding and flatwater paddling up the Naish 7"4 x 25 x 125L with ease. It is a lot of money with very little chance of testing any of it. So take it all with a grain of salt.
I started my DW foil journey on my 6'8" X 26.5" Flying Dutchman board. It was and still is my most stable board to use, whether Sup surf or downwind. I followed the shorter/narrower trend with a kalama inspired board that was 6' X 22.5. In rough ocean conditions it felt like standing on a floating beachball but once up on foil actually enjoyed how much better it turned and surfed. Then the trend shifted to long and narrow so I made a 7'7" X 18" board. It does paddle faster but hard to put the power down as it is quite tippy. I am used to paddling with my feet almost parallel as on regular sup and can't do that on the 18" wide board. It surfs great once on foil. So for me I use the board that fits the conditions of the day. Lighter winds I go narrow. Super windy I go wide. Downwinding is so much fun that any board that gets you up and going works for me. I'm 66yrs and about 75kg.
Lots of solid advice in the posts above wouldn't disagree with any of it and where you are going to surf is important with regard to the conditions at the break. My local is a sandbar beach break with a river mouth, lots of currents, often breezy chop and a soft wave.
I have a 7'6" x 22" DW shape and a 6'9" x 30" surf shape and the main difference between the two is the length of time I can stay out before I get pumped.
When its choppy and the currents are running I last about 30 minutes on the narrow shape and can go over two hours on the wide board. So the wide board wins the wave count even if it does paddle like a pig!!
It's a really interesting question: "Does it make sense to use a narrow DWD style board for learning to SUP-foil in waves?" Most, if not all, did not have this opportunity when learning to SUP-foil in waves and we all learnt on shorter wider stubby boards. We even tried to dwd on these, because that was all we had.
A couple of weeks ago I went back out on a 6'0 x 28 after having used longer (7'2-8'2) narrower dwd style boards in the surf for the past two-three years. Is it more stable? Yes, fractionally more stable side to side. Does it ride better? Yes, pumping and turning does benefit a little bit from the more compact swing-weight. Would I go back to this shape? No ways.......the inability to catch incoming swells way before everyone else and having to deal with trying to surf and pump in between other surfers and negotiating white-water (beach-break conditions) put me off completely. These boards don't paddle straight easily, have no glide and need a relatively steep slope to get going. My wave count dropped significantly and unless I was at a perfect point break with no one out (unicorn scenario) I don't really see much benefit.
If I was starting out today, I'd recommend a "hybrid" dwd board ie. shorter 7'2 - 7'8 with sufficient volume (Bodyweight x 1.4) and 21-23" wide for stability. This should be stable enough and will allow you to catch bumps way easier and enjoy the increased time on foil + you can use it for light wind winging, flat paddle ups + downwinding
Having said all that, local conditions will dictate to a large degree what is the best solution for you, but I think the short, stubby SUP-foil board is going to be pretty niche going forward.
I went from a 5'11, 29", 115L rectangle which sucked to paddle, to a 7'7" x 20 x 110L DW board for both surfing and DW. It's a little low volume for my current 93kg plus 5mm suit, at 6'5" but I wouldn't go back to the previous board. The instability is offset by paddling speed and efficiency as well as bank angles. I really only suffer in crazy chop and current, but even then it's juuuuust doable. I'd love to see some more surf specific shapes for good performance on the wave without needing to be under 75kg to ride them.
If you can stand on one then for sup foiling mid length is the best. I make my own boards and have tried about 10 boards from a fat 4'10x24 to a downwind style 6'8x21" (with bigger DW sups on top of that) all in the 82-92litre range. By far the best is a Mini DW board shape somewhere in the 5'6-5'10 x 21" range. It Paddles well and feels like a prone to turn/pump. I'm 70kg so obviously others will want to scale that up a bit. However I'd keep the width no more than 22.5" for paddle speed. Also narrower than 20" starts to impact how much you can offset your feet and crank turns.
A downwind board opens up so many foiling options,they are great fun in small surf ,easy to catch waves.
Flatwater paddle ups ,Paddle upon river or lake wind bumps ,Paddle onto boat&jetski wakes ,all of these
skills will help if you want to downwind .I'm 70kgs ,Board KT Dragonfly 8'2 x 21 x120ltrs,63yrs
