Gear Optimization For Flatwater Paddleup - The Foil

As someone who has been trying to get a flatwater paddleup for a year now, and intending to stay the course, I am continuing to work on my technique. And while my equipment probably has the potential to achieve this, I wanted to see if I could bring in a few of you to spitball on optimization of gear as any advantage going forward is key at this point. Not getting any younger.

I look at this in three parts, foil, board, and foil to board coordination.

For this thread I am asking about foil optimization for the purpose of a flatwater paddleup assuming the board and foil/board coordination is already optimized for this and the operator has at least the minimal level of sup skill to achieve lift off. I have worked with two foils, the low aspect Gofoil GT2600 and the Higher aspect Gong Curve 6XL that is 186 cm wide and has a surface area of about 3600 cm2.

I am starting to question if going with a foil so large in area is optimal with regard to the Gong. Is it possible that while the lift is greater, the drag from the size of the foil competes with that when only paddle power is being used to generate the speed needed. Seeing as I probably only have maybe 15 strokes to reach max speed, perhaps a foil with less drag would be optimal despite having less lift. I see some of you who weigh more than me paddling up on foils with less area like the Axis 1401 and the Naish Glide 1800 and while I am not forgetting about skill and practice, perhaps there is still an optimization of gear that can give a better chance to the kooks among us to achieve the goal.

Is there some point where a foil has adequate lift to fly an average to larger person over 80kg and going beyond that does not help and might actually hurt the process due to drag (and less speed being able to be generated in that first 10 strokes) produced by additional surface area, thickness of the front face of the foil etc? Is it possible that even though the Gong might have a lower lift off speed, it is actually easier to overcome the drag of the smaller Axis, get more speed, and achieve the lift off speed of that foil?

It is looking like higher aspect wings are better for this, with wider wingspan but with lower front face width (thickness of front facing edge of foil) but perhaps there is a diminishing return or even negative return when it comes to increased surface area past a certain point with regard to drag.

I still have some time to figure this out but appreciate any input on this before considering any next moves for gear aquisition.

So many old clips of Jeremy riggs and crew paddling up the GT2600. Due to its characteristics its all about legs and not a great deal of paddle. Yes its very slow and draggy but considered to be the type of foil where all the flat water started.

They seem to just pump that sucker off the water in a few strokes.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will be looking at some of these foils as it could be the case that going as huge as possible might not have been the best move. I am not an engineer so take any numbers I throw out with a pepper flake but using the lift equation for a hydrofoil, my largest wing does not achieve enough lift to raise 100kg until its moving at over 7 mph which probably aint happening. Perhaps there is some "point of engagement" that a foil will hit when it is producing a certain percentage of the load in terms of lift but I doubt that would be something I would be able to find or figure out.

Bottom line is I think that while a smaller foil in the 1500 - 1800 cm2 range might not have as much lift potential, it can give enough lift for engagement, lots of videos to prove that, and maybe the smaller profile, narrower leading edge, shorter chord allows for better pump synchronation to align with the sine wave involved.

Most of the successful videos I have watched show a paddle rate of 95 to 120 strokes per minute in the take off phase with around 110 being the most common representing a frequency of 1.82 herz for the wave path. Reducing chord width, lowering surface area etc with a smaller foil might just be more conducive for this situation.

I am going to give the GT2600 another go as the center of lift aligns with the center of gravity with my board better than the giant gong but as I will never have Jeremy's or Toma's skill I might need to give something else a try pretty soon. The axis 1401 could be the one I will take a serious look at first but the others mentioned look like good possibilities as well. Thanks again!

What paddle are you using? How is your paddling technique? Post a video and we can tell you if you need a different foil, or to just keep working on paddling. Cadence is king, don't pull the paddle back past your front foot.

At some point I would like to post a video and personalize this in another thread. I know I need to keep working on technique - funny story, about six months ago I was convinced I needed to switch from regular foot (stance used for thirty years surfing and snowboarding) to goofy. Well that took three months to get down and now I actually feel equally competent on both sides. Part of the fun of going out now is alternating between reg and goofy in both the flats and the bumps I can get on the other side of the jetty. Hard to tell if having strong leg and arm in the front or in the back is better, both feel equally comfortable and so far both equally unsuccessful at this endeavor.

But this thread was meant as an attempt to generalize what would make for the easiest route in terms of foil design regardless of age, strength, or ability. And this has been helpful for me in that regard. The ginormous foils can work, but it looks like less surface area and chord width might be the way to go to have a foil that can give some engagement of lift at human paddle speeds but be agile enough to sync with human cadence ability and therefore provide the level of "apparent lift" needed to get the friggin board off the water. Not sure if it is an exact fit of terms but I am borrowing the word "apparent" from my kiteboard days when apparent wind was used from kite dives and cycling to get going in lighter winds.

Spent the morning paddling with the GT2600 after not using it since July or so. Here are some observations:

The GT, being significantly lighter than the Curve 6XL made the board feel a lot more peppy. I am not measuring my speed but I think I was able to get the board moving just a bit faster. Unfortunately, not having that extra half meter of wingspan as well as the additional stability the added weight of the Gong brings (it is also a bit less buoyant than the GT), my balance was not quite as good and my ability to keep the board on an even keel was compromised, but that can be worked on.

Still, each paddle stroke felt like it was bringing more power and I felt, for just a second, the foil start to engage in a way I never felt with the Curve. I felt this in regular stance once a little prominently, but I am starting to think that learning to go goofy was a good move as having that sync between the stronger back leg and the dominant hand giving the pull at the lower position on the paddle had a more powerful feel. But jury is still out on that one.

Another factor that could end up being a big deal was where the center of lift on the GT landed with respect to the center of balance on the board. The V2 GoFoil mast allowed me to move things further forward and at the farthest I could go without having the rear bolts end up in the T nut entry slot, those two centers were lined up. With the Curve the center of lift was about 4 or 5 inches behind the center of balance when positioned all the way forward in the tracks. Probably not as much of a factor when external power is being used but for unassisted flatwater paddling that might be playing a role. Any purchase moves, whether board, foil, or both, I think I will be making sure those can align.

So with this board, which is looking like I had made with the tracks a little too far back, the GoFoil with V2 mast might be more optimal than the Gong. I am looking at the GoFoil P1500 as a possibility but with a 11 cm narrower chord I will need to see where the (approximate) center of lift will land relative to the board. Unlike the GT it has a stem but I do not know if that will be enough. Also 1500 cm2 is at the very lower edge of where I would like to be and even though it has an AR of about 10 the wingspan is 10 cm narrower than the GT2600 which may or may not be something to consider.

Stop pulling with your bottom hand. Focus on pushing down with your top hand. Get the paddle out of the water at your front foot.