Over the past week, I've navigated lineups as a paddle foiler alongside motorized devices such as foil drives, eFoils, and jet skis, with tow boogies also prevalent over the summer. These motorized tools offer significant advantages, allowing riders to catch waves before they break and potentially monopolize wave access, altering the dynamics of shared surf spots.
In sports like soccer and golf, even seemingly arbitrary rules promote fairness-no hands in soccer, no motors in competitive cycling or sailing. Surfing also has established norms for safety and fairness. However, the increasing use of motorized devices demands a renewed commitment to adapting and enforcing these core rules:
1) Wave Priority
2) Avoid Crowded Lineups
3) Maintain Distance
4) Limit Usage in Crowded Areas
When using motorized devices like:
* Foil Drives
* Tow Boogies
* Propeller Jet Drive, or Jet Ski Assist etc.
It's crucial to follow proper etiquette to ensure the safety and enjoyment of all surfers, particularly when sharing the lineup with paddlers. These guidelines help prevent dangerous situations and foster harmony in the surf zone.
Respect Wave Priority
--> Always yield to the Surfer Paddling and Closest to the Wave's Peak.
--> Motorized surfers using foil drives or other powered devices must give priority to paddlers to avoid dangerous situations and ensure fair wave distribution.
Avoid Crowded Lineups
Motorized surfers have an advantage in catching waves earlier and with less effort, so using these devices in crowded lineups is discouraged. Competing with paddlers in such conditions is unfair and increases the risk of collisions and conflicts.
Maintain Safe Distance
The motorized device should promptly exit the impact zone and stay at a safe distance from the lineup. This precaution ensures that paddlers can surf without the threat of close-proximity collisions.
Limit Usage in Crowded Areas
Motor assist and Tow-in surf foiling are best practiced at less crowded, advanced surf spots. In popular areas with more paddlers, limit motorized activity or avoid it during peak times to maintain respect and safety within the community.
People have been advocating "self regulation" on various podcasts, mostly presented by the owners of motor-assist products.
But Self regulation amounts to Doing WTF you want. There are Rules for driving cars, surfing, boating . . . that are mutually understood to keep peace and keep people safe.
Select to expand quoteBeasho said..
Over the past week, I've navigated lineups as a paddle foiler alongside motorized devices such as foil drives, eFoils, and jet skis, with tow boogies also prevalent over the summer. These motorized tools offer significant advantages, allowing riders to catch waves before they break and potentially monopolize wave access, altering the dynamics of shared surf spots.
In sports like soccer and golf, even seemingly arbitrary rules promote fairness-no hands in soccer, no motors in competitive cycling or sailing. Surfing also has established norms for safety and fairness. However, the increasing use of motorized devices demands a renewed commitment to adapting and enforcing these core rules:
1) Wave Priority
2) Avoid Crowded Lineups
3) Maintain Distance
4) Limit Usage in Crowded Areas
Meh. I've seen them out kirra and they were a novelty to watch and stole waves off no man. If I was in the lineup and someone on an e foil was on a wave i wanted then I'm catching that wave and they can hop off and get the next one, same as a proner burning me on a sup for a wave they want. If it's a really **** wave having a foiler who doesn't create wake like a surfboard sharing is a massive novelty. Share and share alike. If you can pump and catch 3 waves in a row expect to be burned.
if a e foiler flairs up because I have burned them there will be words but none I have come across have come anywhere near us unless it's a lull and if you know what your doing then I find coming closer is fine. But we all can clearly tell so if your not don't be a dangerous ****. I'm still wanting to share a wave with a foiler cause you can ride so much more on the shoulder and it doesn't create wake.
The foilers on the GC points I see regularly seem to be competing more with the Sups and longboarders. Cant say I'd be too disappointed to seem them get burnt for a change...!
Select to expand quoteMain said..
The foilers on the GC points I see regularly seem to be competing more with the Sups and longboarders. Cant say I'd be too disappointed to seem them get burnt for a change...!
I don't understand why people dont, they exist on a different dimension we cannot access. For them it's like oh, some **** is on my wave, I'll go to the shoulder or pump to the wave behind me and ride that instead. I seriously doubt they would care and for the waves that your sharing with a foiler, it's going to be fat and slow so you have more then enough time to get out of each others way without missing out on an end section to smash.
the majority of foilers I've come across, I'd say all of them except a two or three young blokes at Wategoes, literally couldn't give a **** and want you to enjoy the ocean.
id much rather be sharing a line up with foilers than any other craft cause they want such different things from us. And then they are the most relaxed and friendliest and dare I say happiest out of all the surf craft cause their resources are endless. Proners are the worst because of the scarcity of waves decent for a prone board. The scarcity of wages grew to harder to find when your one of the 80% of riders riding a board too small. If you're just going across the wave pumping, not getting barrelled, and doing the odd turn not in the lip do you really need a rockered low volume board?
Select to expand quotedearjohn said..Main said..
The foilers on the GC points I see regularly seem to be competing more with the Sups and longboarders. Cant say I'd be too disappointed to seem them get burnt for a change...!
I don't understand why people dont, they exist on a different dimension we cannot access. For them it's like oh, some **** is on my wave, I'll go to the shoulder or pump to the wave behind me and ride that instead. I seriously doubt they would care and for the waves that your sharing with a foiler, it's going to be fat and slow so you have more then enough time to get out of each others way without missing out on an end section to smash.
the majority of foilers I've come across, I'd say all of them except a two or three young blokes at Wategoes, literally couldn't give a **** and want you to enjoy the ocean.
id much rather be sharing a line up with foilers than any other craft cause they want such different things from us. And then they are the most relaxed and friendliest and dare I say happiest out of all the surf craft cause their resources are endless. Proners are the worst because of the scarcity of waves decent for a prone board. The scarcity of wages grew to harder to find when your one of the 80% of riders riding a board too small. If you're just going across the wave pumping, not getting barrelled, and doing the odd turn not in the lip do you really need a rockered low volume board?
The trick is to call the other crafts onto the wave even when you have priority. Show them you can share. When they eventually slog to a stand still then scream past them and say "sick riding man". Then when they eventually paddle back out (cause you've linked a couple then settled back down into the lineup they smile and know you can share any waves with a foiler 
as far as motorised stuff . man that's a hard one hey ?
Select to expand quoteeppo said..dearjohn said..Main said..
The foilers on the GC points I see regularly seem to be competing more with the Sups and longboarders. Cant say I'd be too disappointed to seem them get burnt for a change...!
I don't understand why people dont, they exist on a different dimension we cannot access. For them it's like oh, some **** is on my wave, I'll go to the shoulder or pump to the wave behind me and ride that instead. I seriously doubt they would care and for the waves that your sharing with a foiler, it's going to be fat and slow so you have more then enough time to get out of each others way without missing out on an end section to smash.
the majority of foilers I've come across, I'd say all of them except a two or three young blokes at Wategoes, literally couldn't give a **** and want you to enjoy the ocean.
id much rather be sharing a line up with foilers than any other craft cause they want such different things from us. And then they are the most relaxed and friendliest and dare I say happiest out of all the surf craft cause their resources are endless. Proners are the worst because of the scarcity of waves decent for a prone board. The scarcity of wages grew to harder to find when your one of the 80% of riders riding a board too small. If you're just going across the wave pumping, not getting barrelled, and doing the odd turn not in the lip do you really need a rockered low volume board?
The trick is to call the other crafts onto the wave even when you have priority. Show them you can share. When they eventually slog to a stand still then scream past them and say "sick riding man". Then when they eventually paddle back out (cause you've linked a couple then settled back down into the lineup they smile and know you can share any waves with a foiler as far as motorised stuff . man that's a hard one hey ?
You only call them onto the next wave when you want the one behind it though right?
I see the biggest issue will be between motorised foilers and guys like myself.
I am over 60yo and gave up trying to surf short boards within a pack of grommets fighting for priority years ago, so I welcomed the foils and was an early adopter, mainly on a SUP foil, enjoying getting fat wide waves no-one else (even prone foilers) wanted.
I have no interest in foil drive or any motorised foil and am happier using my own power and just using a paddle.
I now mainly downwind on long skinny sups (currently 8' x 20" but a longer narrower one on the way) but of course if no wind enjoy a surf, catching waves that no-one else wanted or could catch at least.
However along came the foil drives and now sometimes after waiting for ages pretty much by myself, I see a set right out wide and start paddling only to hear the sound of a foil drive come up behind and go around me and turn onto the wave first.
As we are both foiling we can usually share but sometimes said foil driver believes it is his wave.
I will say 90+% of foil drivers are cool and either let me have waves or are happy to share and give me priority.
It's always the minority that cause issues.
Select to expand quotetightlines said..
I see the biggest issue will be between motorised foilers and guys like myself.
I am over 60yo and gave up trying to surf short boards within a pack of grommets fighting for priority years ago, so I welcomed the foils and was an early adopter, mainly on a SUP foil, enjoying getting fat wide waves no-one else (even prone foilers) wanted.
I have no interest in foil drive or any motorised foil and am happier using my own power and just using a paddle.
I now mainly downwind on long skinny sups (currently 8' x 20" but a longer narrower one on the way) but of course if no wind enjoy a surf, catching waves that no-one else wanted or could catch at least.
However along came the foil drives and now sometimes after waiting for ages pretty much by myself, I see a set right out wide and start paddling only to hear the sound of a foil drive come up behind and go around me and turn onto the wave first.
As we are both foiling we can usually share but sometimes said foil driver believes it is his wave.
I will say 90+% of foil drivers are cool and either let me have waves or are happy to share and give me priority.
It's always the minority that cause issues.
Sounds like those three blokes at Wategoes bought a foil drive. Just burn them. Dont give them an inch if they're being ****witts. They will push until you push back.
Select to expand quotedearjohn said..tightlines said..
I see the biggest issue will be between motorised foilers and guys like myself.
I am over 60yo and gave up trying to surf short boards within a pack of grommets fighting for priority years ago, so I welcomed the foils and was an early adopter, mainly on a SUP foil, enjoying getting fat wide waves no-one else (even prone foilers) wanted.
I have no interest in foil drive or any motorised foil and am happier using my own power and just using a paddle.
I now mainly downwind on long skinny sups (currently 8' x 20" but a longer narrower one on the way) but of course if no wind enjoy a surf, catching waves that no-one else wanted or could catch at least.
However along came the foil drives and now sometimes after waiting for ages pretty much by myself, I see a set right out wide and start paddling only to hear the sound of a foil drive come up behind and go around me and turn onto the wave first.
As we are both foiling we can usually share but sometimes said foil driver believes it is his wave.
I will say 90+% of foil drivers are cool and either let me have waves or are happy to share and give me priority.
It's always the minority that cause issues.
Sounds like those three blokes at Wategoes bought a foil drive. Just burn them. Dont give them an inch if they're being ****witts. They will push until you push back.
Agreed - i give no right of way to an efoiling foil drive. But if someone is just standing in the lineup using a little squirt to get going . i can be a little more accomodating.
Select to expand quotedearjohn said..eppo said..dearjohn said..Main said..
The foilers on the GC points I see regularly seem to be competing more with the Sups and longboarders. Cant say I'd be too disappointed to seem them get burnt for a change...!
I don't understand why people dont, they exist on a different dimension we cannot access. For them it's like oh, some **** is on my wave, I'll go to the shoulder or pump to the wave behind me and ride that instead. I seriously doubt they would care and for the waves that your sharing with a foiler, it's going to be fat and slow so you have more then enough time to get out of each others way without missing out on an end section to smash.
the majority of foilers I've come across, I'd say all of them except a two or three young blokes at Wategoes, literally couldn't give a **** and want you to enjoy the ocean.
id much rather be sharing a line up with foilers than any other craft cause they want such different things from us. And then they are the most relaxed and friendliest and dare I say happiest out of all the surf craft cause their resources are endless. Proners are the worst because of the scarcity of waves decent for a prone board. The scarcity of wages grew to harder to find when your one of the 80% of riders riding a board too small. If you're just going across the wave pumping, not getting barrelled, and doing the odd turn not in the lip do you really need a rockered low volume board?
The trick is to call the other crafts onto the wave even when you have priority. Show them you can share. When they eventually slog to a stand still then scream past them and say "sick riding man". Then when they eventually paddle back out (cause you've linked a couple then settled back down into the lineup they smile and know you can share any waves with a foiler as far as motorised stuff . man that's a hard one hey ?
You only call them onto the next wave when you want the one behind it though right?
nah i will call them onto my wave!! We can burn off these slow slog numpty sups and long boards Show them you can share - cause most aren't doing a great deal on them anyway. Unless of course it's a gun waterman next to you - they need the full wave. But most are just plodders wasting wave energy mostly lol.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..dearjohn said..eppo said..dearjohn said..Main said..
The foilers on the GC points I see regularly seem to be competing more with the Sups and longboarders. Cant say I'd be too disappointed to seem them get burnt for a change...!
I don't understand why people dont, they exist on a different dimension we cannot access. For them it's like oh, some **** is on my wave, I'll go to the shoulder or pump to the wave behind me and ride that instead. I seriously doubt they would care and for the waves that your sharing with a foiler, it's going to be fat and slow so you have more then enough time to get out of each others way without missing out on an end section to smash.
the majority of foilers I've come across, I'd say all of them except a two or three young blokes at Wategoes, literally couldn't give a **** and want you to enjoy the ocean.
id much rather be sharing a line up with foilers than any other craft cause they want such different things from us. And then they are the most relaxed and friendliest and dare I say happiest out of all the surf craft cause their resources are endless. Proners are the worst because of the scarcity of waves decent for a prone board. The scarcity of wages grew to harder to find when your one of the 80% of riders riding a board too small. If you're just going across the wave pumping, not getting barrelled, and doing the odd turn not in the lip do you really need a rockered low volume board?
The trick is to call the other crafts onto the wave even when you have priority. Show them you can share. When they eventually slog to a stand still then scream past them and say "sick riding man". Then when they eventually paddle back out (cause you've linked a couple then settled back down into the lineup they smile and know you can share any waves with a foiler as far as motorised stuff . man that's a hard one hey ?
You only call them onto the next wave when you want the one behind it though right?
nah i will call them onto my wave!! We can burn off these slow slog numpty sups and long boards Show them you can share - cause most aren't doing a great deal on them anyway. Unless of course it's a gun waterman next to you - they need the full wave. But most are just plodders wasting wave energy mostly lol.
Mate at the risk of sounding quite ignorant here, I have no idea what your last comment was all about.
If you had not already seen it on the nightly news: Another fiasco with Motor vs Paddler:
I asked surf expert Burt Bacharach for his thoughts, and he said, "You know what this lineup needs? A jingle!"
The Towman Can
(To the tune of The Candy Man Can)
Who drops in from the back, with a rope in his hand,
And cuts off the paddler who's got the wave planned?
The towman can, oh, the towman can,
'Cause he thinks the rules bend for his jet ski band! His jet ski band!Who whips up the chaos, like a circus in the sea,
And leaves the locals grumbling, "This ain't how it should be!"
The towman can, oh, the towman can,
But respect for wave priority-he does misunderstand!The towman can, oh, the towman can,
'Cause he thinks the rules bend for his jet ski band! His jet ski band!
So next time you're towing, here's a tip to understand,
Find an empty reef break, or be banned from the sand! 
towman can, oh, the towman can,
'Cause he thinks the rules bend for his jet ski band! His jet ski band!
Now we just need Hdip on this thread too, so he can defend the poor tow-ins and how they're just trying to make a living. 
Maybe we can get more people excited with some Holiday cheer:
"Nic Von Rupp" (To the tune of Jingle Bells)??
Dashing through the foam,
On a ski with tow in play,
Over paddlers' zones,
Nic dropped anyway.
The paddle surfer yelled,
The rope flew in his path,
They tangled in the swell,
And both went for a bath.
Oh, Nic Von Rupp, Nic Von Rupp,
Cutting through the wave,
With skis and ropes and chaos,
Who's the one to save? Hey!
Nic Von Rupp, Nic Von Rupp,
Next time play it cool,
The lineup has its order-
Respect the golden rule! ??
Merry Christmas to all!!!!
Firstly, respect for building your extruded EPS boards, they are awesome
That Tow in Surfer and his driver are in the wrong! The driver surly would have seen the surfer who has spent time and effort getting in position and reading the break and yet the tow in surfer is complaining 
I agree with priority goes to paddle (prone or sup) before any motor.
I think the issue is with big wave spots such as Nazare, Mavericks and Jaws where a motor can put someone who wouldn't necessarily be there trying to get there moment of fame.
Years ago, I had a jetski and did some tow in on very isolated outer reef breaks (we were the only people there) and sure I was comfortable wavesailing mast and half but not paddle surfing.
I've got a secondhand Foil drive and had a few sessions in the waves and it incredible how much further out you can catch the swell then pop the motor up and let go of the trigger.
I have a local break that will put me far away from any paddle surfer and if I am at a surf break, I got out through the white water once and at the end and while I'm out I'm pulling off the wave well before the surfers.
ITS RESPECT 
Select to expand quoteBeasho said..
Maybe we can get more people excited with some Holiday cheer:
"Nic Von Rupp" (To the tune of Jingle Bells)??
Dashing through the foam,
On a ski with tow in play,
Over paddlers' zones,
Nic dropped anyway.
The paddle surfer yelled,
The rope flew in his path,
They tangled in the swell,
And both went for a bath.
Oh, Nic Von Rupp, Nic Von Rupp,
Cutting through the wave,
With skis and ropes and chaos,
Who's the one to save? Hey!
Nic Von Rupp, Nic Von Rupp,
Next time play it cool,
The lineup has its order-
Respect the golden rule! ??
Merry Christmas to all!!!!
Not sure I understand. The paddle in dude dropped in
Select to expand quotetheSeb said..Beasho said..
Maybe we can get more people excited with some Holiday cheer:
"Nic Von Rupp" (To the tune of Jingle Bells)??
Dashing through the foam,
On a ski with tow in play,
Over paddlers' zones,
Nic dropped anyway.
The paddle surfer yelled,
The rope flew in his path,
They tangled in the swell,
And both went for a bath.
Oh, Nic Von Rupp, Nic Von Rupp,
Cutting through the wave,
With skis and ropes and chaos,
Who's the one to save? Hey!
Nic Von Rupp, Nic Von Rupp,
Next time play it cool,
The lineup has its order-
Respect the golden rule! ??
Merry Christmas to all!!!!
Not sure I understand. The paddle in dude dropped in
No, he didn't. Paddlers have priority.
Select to expand quotezarb said..theSeb said..Beasho said..
Maybe we can get more people excited with some Holiday cheer:
"Nic Von Rupp" (To the tune of Jingle Bells)??
Dashing through the foam,
On a ski with tow in play,
Over paddlers' zones,
Nic dropped anyway.
The paddle surfer yelled,
The rope flew in his path,
They tangled in the swell,
And both went for a bath.
Oh, Nic Von Rupp, Nic Von Rupp,
Cutting through the wave,
With skis and ropes and chaos,
Who's the one to save? Hey!
Nic Von Rupp, Nic Von Rupp,
Next time play it cool,
The lineup has its order-
Respect the golden rule! ??
Merry Christmas to all!!!!
Not sure I understand. The paddle in dude dropped in
No, he didn't. Paddlers have priority.
Exactly, if you paddle in you should have priority over any type of assist, ski, tow boogie, foil drive etc
Select to expand quotetightlines said..zarb said..
No, he didn't. Paddlers have priority.
Exactly, if you paddle in you should have priority over any type of assist, ski, tow boogie, foil drive etc
Yeah, rules are great, but the world isn't black and white. There are shades of grey in between, just like in the video.
This isn't some fun 3-4 beach break. I am not sure what you guys were expecting Nic to do, or where to go. He was clearly already on the wave without many choices when paddle guy dropped in. Nic tried to avoid him, but paddle guy then proved he should not have been out there and f-ed up the take off. Due to his lack of awareness and/or sheer stupidity, paddle guy created the dangerous situation where somebody could have been seriously hurt. Paddle guy is not someone I would want to share the lineup with. It was a crowded day with around 40 skis in the water.
It's all well and good to be shouting from our arm chairs about rules. If you see a large truck coming fast about to run a red light and you have a green light would you try to avoid it or go ahead and crash into it? At least they can put "He had the right of way" on your tombstone I guess.
As for the comment above about people being where they should not be looking for exposure, I assume that was directed at the seemingly oblivious paddle guy. Nic isn't some noob. He is a well known charger, a regular at Nazare, and has a long history of professional surfing.
Finally, I think creating stupid (funny?) songs about a incident that could have ended up with a life changing injury is macabre and uncalled for.
Of course it's not black and white - I'm certainly not claiming that Nic should be in trouble or made a social pariah. But neither should the paddler - he's definitely not at fault either. Will all the complexities and context and alternate factors in surfing - I think you still have to build first from a basic rule - that is that paddlers have priority over tow teams. It's a big day with high consequences and there is guaranteed to be mess and confusion. That being said... it's less of a mess and confusion for a tow team that has their relative pick of waves and is highly mobile - compared with someone who's head-down and paddling and has a much narrower window for wave selection and positioning.
Yeah if you're out paddling on a day where 99% of others are towing, you should probably rethink your choices. But what's the harm in just steering clear of the paddler, letting him have priority, watching him get smoked, then you're back to having your pick of waves until he eventually paddles back out (if he does at all).
Select to expand quotezarb said..
Of course it's not black and white - I'm certainly not claiming that Nic should be in trouble or made a social pariah. But neither should the paddler - he's definitely not at fault either. Will all the complexities and context and alternate factors in surfing - I think you still have to build first from a basic rule - that is that paddlers have priority over tow teams. It's a big day with high consequences and there is guaranteed to be mess and confusion. That being said... it's less of a mess and confusion for a tow team that has their relative pick of waves and is highly mobile - compared with someone who's head-down and paddling and has a much narrower window for wave selection and positioning.
Yeah if you're out paddling on a day where 99% of others are towing, you should probably rethink your choices. But what's the harm in just steering clear of the paddler, letting him have priority, watching him get smoked, then you're back to having your pick of waves until he eventually paddles back out (if he does at all).
I think it's a good rule and I do not disagree with anything you said, but I also don't think this particular video was the right choice to illustrate the point of this thread.
Select to expand quotetheSeb said..tightlines said..zarb said..
No, he didn't. Paddlers have priority.
Exactly, if you paddle in you should have priority over any type of assist, ski, tow boogie, foil drive etc
Yeah, rules are great, but the world isn't black and white. There are shades of grey in between, just like in the video.
This isn't some fun 3-4 beach break. I am not sure what you guys were expecting Nic to do, or where to go. He was clearly already on the wave without many choices when paddle guy dropped in. Nic tried to avoid him, but paddle guy then proved he should not have been out there and f-ed up the take off. Due to his lack of awareness and/or sheer stupidity, paddle guy created the dangerous situation where somebody could have been seriously hurt. Paddle guy is not someone I would want to share the lineup with. It was a crowded day with around 40 skis in the water.
It's all well and good to be shouting from our arm chairs about rules. If you see a large truck coming fast about to run a red light and you have a green light would you try to avoid it or go ahead and crash into it? At least they can put "He had the right of way" on your tombstone I guess.
As for the comment above about people being where they should not be looking for exposure, I assume that was directed at the seemingly oblivious paddle guy. Nic isn't some noob. He is a well known charger, a regular at Nazare, and has a long history of professional surfing.
Finally, I think creating stupid (funny?) songs about a incident that could have ended up with a life changing injury is macabre and uncalled for.
The paddle guy looked like he was doing pretty good till the rope clearly took his fins. He managed to get himself in the right spot at the right time and was up and away in an environment where 40 teams decided they needed a ski?
In most places if people are still paddling then no tows.
