Picked up a DW board and found that after a few uses the foil tracks are leaking. It's small droplets of water, coming from the front of the foil tracks when the 'skin' or top layer of carbon is pressed down.Tracks are plastic so touch of super glue over them to seal them up didn't work as it eventually flakes off. Other than grinding back and laying carbon over, wondering if there are any other ideas?
Hi If the leak is coming from the bottom of the box, it may be because your mounting crews are too long. If you're using 30mm screws, maybe try the shorter 25mm screws?The US brand Flexseal is now selling some of their products in Australia. They make crazy sealing materials, and could be worth a try.....
You could be in for total box failure and loose your foil . Put your foil on and place your board on the ground to see if the boxes move by flexing and twisting the foil , if they do move they need to be pulled out and reset . If you boxes are still solid you could grind back and put a layer of carbon over , trouble is you already have water trapped in there , it will only get worse with time. It's cost apx $350-$450 to get new boxes put in , much cheaper than loosing a $2,000 to $3,000 foil and a destroying board.
Water is coming from the top of the foil boxes - where the skin of the board meets the foil tracks. Foil boxes are still solid, no movement but assume if I don't seal this will get worse. Board has been dried outside in the shade for a few days now. Assume grind and lay carbon is probably best route.
Yep would make sure it's real dry and then put a layer or 2 of carbon patch and make sure you trim cut semi dry carbon patch on inside of track opening little tricky to not get epoxy resin inside boxes meticulous tape off inside boxes necessary but way to go for extra strength
Select to expand quotepitbulldoug said..
Yep would make sure it's real dry and then put a layer or 2 of carbon patch and make sure you trim cut semi dry carbon patch on inside of track opening little tricky to not get epoxy resin inside boxes meticulous tape off inside boxes necessary but way to go for extra strength
Thanks, this was my thought process.. I don't believe epoxy would stick to the inside the foil boxes as they are a plastic like material. I don't know if it is an actual leak or poorly joined skin to foil track set up. No hissing or water dripping out after boards all sealed up and left in the sun. Only see water coming from it when pressing down on the skin of the board. Needs to be fixed either way. I'll leave the board another week to dry out - It has a vent plug.
Select to expand quoteFoilmate said..pitbulldoug said..
Yep would make sure it's real dry and then put a layer or 2 of carbon patch and make sure you trim cut semi dry carbon patch on inside of track opening little tricky to not get epoxy resin inside boxes meticulous tape off inside boxes necessary but way to go for extra strength
Thanks, this was my thought process.. I don't believe epoxy would stick to the inside the foil boxes as they are a plastic like material. I don't know if it is an actual leak or poorly joined skin to foil track set up. No hissing or water dripping out after boards all sealed up and left in the sun. Only see water coming from it when pressing down on the skin of the board. Needs to be fixed either way. I'll leave the board another week to dry out - It has a vent plug.
Another little trick before laminating CF patch is put some temporary foam backing in box slot so tape off sticks in slot and run CF right over the top trim with blade after sets up nicely but before getting real dry/hard
Select to expand quotePiros said..
You could be in for total box failure and loose your foil . Put your foil on and place your board on the ground to see if the boxes move by flexing and twisting the foil , if they do move they need to be pulled out and reset . If you boxes are still solid you could grind back and put a layer of carbon over , trouble is you already have water trapped in there , it will only get worse with time. It's cost apx $350-$450 to get new boxes put in , much cheaper than loosing a $2,000 to $3,000 foil and a destroying board.
Im on my 36th track install and of course what your imparting is solid intell PIROS.
One of the things I learned from one of the Hawaii board guys is to put a piece of glasses between the tracks and the carbon during laminatio . I didn't believe that it would make a difference at all, but after trying it out and comparing on a number test tracks, the "glass on track" samples bonded better.
The only reasonable reason I can think of is that the glass fibers mechanically bond tighter to the keyed track surface because they are more flexible.
Anyways, fix that sh#@ before you loose your foil homie!
Select to expand quoteFoilmate said..
Water is coming from the top of the foil boxes - where the skin of the board meets the foil tracks. Foil boxes are still solid, no movement but assume if I don't seal this will get worse. Board has been dried outside in the shade for a few days now. Assume grind and lay carbon is probably best route.
As Piros said, water trapped inside will slowly corrupt the foam.
You must open to ventilate and dry it as much as possible.
A mandatory read: boardlady.com/water.htm
Then, you need both to reinforce the anchoring of the boxes deep in the foam (and ideally with a connection to the deck), and re-add fiber layers (carbon and/or glass) on the hull. But having them replaced by a pro is the best option
I had similar problem. I noticed water in one of my tracks & just thought it layed in their from not drying properly. Some days it would be there other days not.
I rinse my board with fresh water after every use. So I then tasted the water & it was salty.
Then put it out in the sun and sure enough I found a leak coming out of a pin hole on the edge of the track at the laminated surface.
After drying it out for a week I filed a groove over the pin hole & filled with epoxy. After a few surfs I found it was still leaking where the lamination meets the track, but a bit further away from my repair. So in the end I decided to tape off around both tracks & painted epoxy over the lamination & into the tracks. No more leaks. Been wing foiling around a year now with no issues.
BUT! By all means if you want to be as close as a 100% fail safe repair then do what Piros mentioned or get it done professionally.
I will just keep an eye on mine & test the track strength occasionally after attaching the foil mast. And yeah I am taking a chance.
It is quite disappointing to know that leaks can occur around this area on production boards.
I put a whole foil track box in one of my SUPs years ago with glass matting and it is still bomb & leak proof. I have had bent & broken masts a few times.
Select to expand quoteFoilmate said..
Water is coming from the top of the foil boxes - where the skin of the board meets the foil tracks. Foil boxes are still solid, no movement but assume if I don't seal this will get worse. Board has been dried outside in the shade for a few days now. Assume grind and lay carbon is probably best route.
Lot's of good advice and your course of action sounds perfect. You can use epoxy and glass and make sure to rough sand the fin box top.
Just to add my knowlege and to gipe at same time; I've had 6 production boards (all made in China, Freedom and Amundson) fail due to faulty glassing of inserts. I repaired the boxes after the warranty board also failed and they've been fine. Appletree (Portugal) and Kalama (Vietnam) have been flawless. I just picked up a Freedom DW board (USA) and dropped 1 ft in a bag and the carbon lap at the deck to rail burst open. Clearly I am cursed.
Any EPS foam board should have a high density, closed cell pvc foam (Divinycell typ) insert wherever a plastic plug is placed. The board is glassed as a shell with carbon fiber for rigidity and light weight, and often 4-6oz e glassed on the outside for impact resistance and to protect the carbon from sanding. After routing out for the plugs, ideally the plug (leash, hand grip, footstrap, finbox) is then wrapped in glass and set with Epoxy/cabosil into the pvc foam. The boxes need to be course sanded flush to the deck so the plastic is rough. Then two layers of glass/epoxy on top of the plugs-imo, you don't need carbon at the patches and it makes sanding difficult, but you could if you wanted to. Do not breathe sanded carbon fiber.
Biggest area of failure I'm seeing is plugs installed into eps with only cabosil and an oversanded glass cap on the deck. Be careful with dark colored boards as leaving in the sun for just a short time can soften up the epoxy and cause gassing where the factory used polyester resin gel/ sanding coats or xps insulation to save money/speed up production. And check your vent plug. Two of the bad boards vent plugs were not functional as the factory set the plugs and didn't drill into the foam.
