Advice sought: turning at the top of the wave

I am normally in smaller waves, but when I turn at the top of the wave the best I can do is give one or two deep paddle-strokes to assist the turn and to provide extra power/speed back down the wave.

But when you see competent riders do it, they seem to plant the paddle and spin the board using the paddle as a lever. They often get a good spray going their board turns so fast.

I have tried, even on my small 7'10" minion, but I am obviously doing something wrong.

Are you supposed to plant the paddle and then use your legs to spin the board using the paddle as a lever? Is the board supposed to be at the perfect point on the wave to reduce the resistance to being spun?

What's the secret?

Yes back foot on the tail pad and more front foot than the paddle lever to send the board down the face. (Can be this is why I'm SUPsurfing on shorter board as I can.)
In first is to open your front leg as much as you can and in second to use the paddle as a lever. More focus on your back and front foot than holding paddle as a lever.

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hilly said..
Speed is key.

Good yarn here www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/Flat-Turn-VS-Hard-On-A-Rail/?page=1

Will never beat this ever on a SUP

Can you say : never say ever
SUP still have 35 years to practice as the Simmon's thruster took those years to succeed this wonderful move on the top of wave face.

I'm still working on this myself what I've found so far if i put the paddle out in front of my leading foot an pull the blade through the water as hard as possible it helps the turn engage then as the board carves around on rail you can lean on the paddle almost like a layback to continue the turn till the boards back under you. I can only get this to work on a moderate angle up the face got no idea where to put it when trying to go vert usually just lift the paddle and hope the lip spins me back down.





Just throw it up there paddle out in front and pull it through the lip

Thanks very much for everyone's comments.

I have been focusing on two things lately - trying to get more speed through pumping (or my version) and improving the top turn.

I used to surf mals - I really just stood up and went for a ride.

Now by pushing down in the bottom turn I often manage to get more speed - if I time it right. I am sure most of you do it without thinking.

But I hadn't really associated speed with those top turns - but it makes sense when you think about it....

And looking at Matt's photo, you don't need the perfect wave to get enough speed. In my mind I can't see myself getting the board to slash that much. I think I just need to commit - get the back foot back and turn hard - and if I frick it up - so what.

Thanks again.

Thanks Matt!

So just so I have it clear, get out further in front of the wave and then cut harder (leaning over more) back in and up the face. And with that speed, cut harder on the turn. With the back foot as far back as possible, it will make the turns fast. (I certainly have noticed that. When I can really feel the kick-pad at the back of the board I can turn it easier, but sometimes I then feel like my legs are too far apart.)

Yep you've got the idea. I get that legs too wide feeling too I'm still bottom turning with my back foot too far forward but I'm stepping back to carve off the top. Am working on staying back for the whole ride will get it one day. The actual top turn is counter intuitive your sholders turn clock wise while the board goes the other way its weird but it works. It's the complete opposite of a shortboard turn where the board follows your sholder rotation. Try this face a wall at home lift up you left foot like your going up the wave with your hands apart like you're holding the paddle reach your right hand past your left foot then push your right hand back and pivot on you right heel untill your bums facing the wall and your supporting your weight on you hand with your left leg in the air still. You should get the reverse twist i was talking about. Either that or you'll be doing the hokey pokey lol

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Tang said..
Speed off the bottom is best, but speed in general is what you need. where you are trying to turn can also play a large role in slowing you down, too. If you turn where the wave is steeper it will help pull you through the turn, but it's easy to get lulled into trying to do a top turn out on the shoulder where you need lots of speed to bring it around.
its also worth thinking less about cutting harder and more about flowing through the turn. If you flow through it you can maintain (or increase) your speed, but pivoting will use up your speed.

I am often trying this in pretty soft Westernport waves and the shoulder is not steep. When the wave banks up more I do get a lot more speed and the turns are a lot more fun. I am getting a better picture in my mind of what I have to do. Now I just need to find some waves and do it!

The only time I get to go up a wave vertically like in your Ment photo is when I am trying to paddle over it Maybe one day I will be doing it during a turn!

(And this is what I love about old guy sup surfing - I get to pretend I am a grom again and do things on the waves that I never could when I was a grom )

I plan one turn ahead of the lip smack... because it requires a set-up

as the lip smacks the board around, take a sweeping dig with your paddle to help swing you around and maintain balance

the sequence lacks enough vertical, because I was a little behind... but shows the set-up

last few pics show the foot placement and the paddle sweep

it's a lot of pics.... but I learn better from them























better

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Session said..
All good top turns are set up best with a powerful turn off the bottom, get your back foot back further on tail pad!

This.

Getting a real top turn/reo in is much harder if you are angling straight across the wave - go straight down off the drop and do a proper bottom turn, a suddenly a world full of new oprtions will become available to you when you get to the top!.

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supthecreek said..
I plan one turn ahead of the lip smack... because it requires a set-up

as the lip smacks the board around, take a sweeping dig with your paddle to help swing you around and maintain balance

the sequence lacks enough vertical, because I was a little behind... but shows the set-up

last few pics show the foot placement and the paddle sweep

it's a lot of pics.... but I learn better from them


better

Wow - thanks STC - that's going above and beyond!!

But it has really helped pull it all together.

I have been too focused on the turn itself - not the set up. I need a much more aggressive bottom turn to get the speed and the angle right. I am often trying to turn when I am going a bit too slow, a bit too parallel to the wave, and too far out on the shoulder. With a faster turn I would be heading back up the wave closer to where it is breaking.

But I can also see that if I had my weight further back, with the nose out of the water more, there would be less resistance to the turn. I have been trying to man-handle the turn and it just hasn't worked.

I also feel like I have not had my balance right - just as you have to lean in to the bottom turn (and I need to commit more), you need to lean in the opposite direction at the top - I think I am too vertical.

Now I just need to get in the water to try it!!

"And you tell the young people of today that, and they won't believe you!"
(Michael Palin - Monty Python - 4 Yorkshiremen sketch)

Just in case anyone else is reading this thread for tips, I found this vid that supports everything written above: