I've been foiling for a year now and I definitely like it.
I'm using different Infinity foils of the Hover Glide line of Slingshot.
Right now I' considering upgrading to newer more medium / higher aspect foils.
I've been reading interesting discussions over here.
I understand there is :
1. Some compatibility within Singshot between Hover Glide and Phantasm by means of an adaptor between the Hover Glide mast and the Phantams fuselage or by a special fuselage for Hover Gilde foils to be put on a Phantasm mast.
2. Some compatibilty between the front foils of Slingshot and Sabfoil. Maybe also for the stabilizer ?
So now I have to decide which path I take and I doubt.
I also like the Gong foils there is a huge collection maybe 10 different types and sometimes 10 sizes, they only have 1 physical shop in the South of France and order everything on line, not expensive, I hear good quality, much equipment second hand, all compatible, for windfoil, extra extension piece on fuselage.
I saw there is a Spanish firm making connector pieces for Gong and other brands + I found a discussion thread about this.
Does somebody has experience of a (custom) connector piece between Gong and Slingshot Hover Glide ?
Or other brands and Slingshot.
Or inbetween other brands ?
Are these connectors strong, rigid, stiff ?
And is this the case for the Slingshot Hover Glide - Phantasm connector.
Could a Sabfoil mast be connected to a Slingshot Phantasm fuselage or the other way around, by means of a (custom) connector ?
I know a new aluminum mast is not so expensive, but a carbon mast is.
And furthermore I hate piling up material, my car is cramped, I have limited space.
I dislike incompatible gear.
For example I get masts with interchangable sections although the masts have a different length, so I can make all kind of lenght combinations. Same for the wishbone with 60 cm extensions.
I would like at least the board/mast connection and the mast/fuselage connection should be universal.
Like biking : Shimano and SRAM can be mixed.
Select to expand quoteYellowHelmet said..
... Like biking : Shimano and SRAM can be mixed.
Chains and cassettes but not that much else anymore
Thank heavens for Taiwanese and Chinese component manufacturers offering some compatible options. Still a few bikes in the fleet are on friction - the Windsurfer LT of the bike world. 
There's this thread about cobbling together various bits: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Chop-Shop--Customs--Mix-Match
with Slingshot blowing out stuff at good prices, I'm about to embark on a couple of projects in the cooler months here
There's also this thread elsewhere about redoing Starboard fuses that I found fascinating: www.windsurfing33.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=134723
The Slingshot mast you have now is awful. Not worth incorporating into any future system.
I've ridden Gong and Phantasm stuff for a while. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Both of their existing systems are being replaced with ones that aren't backwards compatible (for wings anyway).
The first question to ask is what kind of foiling are you looking to do. Go fast? Ride swell? Cruise around without much sail pressure?
The second question is what kind of connection do you want to the board: Tuttle or track?
The next question is how little wind you expect to foil in.
The last is what you weigh.
Why??
Id not want to rely on connectors holding non compatible bits together while I was out FOILING!!! But I'm not a clever peep and I don't have the time to make test fail make more and constantly miss TOW. heaps of respect for those that do tinker, I'm just not one.
Select to expand quoteBSN101 said..
Why??
Id not want to rely on connectors holding non compatible bits together while I was out FOILING!!! But I'm not a clever peep and I don't have the time to make test fail make more and constantly miss TOW. heaps of respect for those that do tinker, I'm just not one.
One good reason is that with so few standards, over time, as manufactures stop supporting old standards, gear wears out, breaks, etc we'll all end up with orphan pieces. A great mast, decent fuse but sucky old wing. Should I chuck a nice 97cm carbon mast or try to reuse it with better, more modern wings? Do we chuck all those nice old orange slingshot wings or try use them with more modern gear?
Yes, there is a risk and it may mean that if something goes sideways, we lose a day on the water. But if money is tight, that's a fair trade off for some.
Like you suggest, it's not for everyone. It's like bikes - some just want to go to a shop and get a new one with no worries. Others are willing to get an older bike and just update the relevant parts.
I've heard rumors that one of the big brands will introduce a universal standard in order to invite other foil manufacturers for cross compatibility.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
The Slingshot mast you have now is awful. Not worth incorporating into any future system.
I've ridden Gong and Phantasm stuff for a while. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Both of their existing systems are being replaced with ones that aren't backwards compatible (for wings anyway).
The first question to ask is what kind of foiling are you looking to do. Go fast? Ride swell? Cruise around without much sail pressure?
The second question is what kind of connection do you want to the board: Tuttle or track?
The next question is how little wind you expect to foil in.
The last is what you weigh.
I weigh 75 kg on a Slingshot Wizard 125 liter.
Now I'm cruizing at lower speed and learing with Infinity 76 and 84, will also try 99.
Maybe later I will look for going faster. I'm thinking of PTM 926.
Am using mainly 5 m? 4 Gaastra Poison and 6 m? 5 Severne Gator, but sometimes smaller or bigger.
For the connection mast-board, that's one of the first problems : now I have deep tuttle but I now in the future I will and want to have the double track on a future board.
I would buy now a new lighter carbon mast but then I have to buy deep tuttle for my actual board I wont be able to use on a new board.
This refrains me for buying a new mast.
Unless I buy a carbon mast with double track system and get the Slingshot Jack Plate, but is it solid and what is the weight of it.
I was thinking about the Sabfoil Kraken mast system, but then it is not compatibel with the Slingshot fuselage (as well Hover Glide and Phantasm), nor with Gong.
It's a kind of circular dead end street.
Most of the times the conclusion is to buy everything new, and then I end up with buying nothing.
Select to expand quotePaducah said..BSN101 said..
Why??
Id not want to rely on connectors holding non compatible bits together while I was out FOILING!!! But I'm not a clever peep and I don't have the time to make test fail make more and constantly miss TOW. heaps of respect for those that do tinker, I'm just not one.
One good reason is that with so few standards, over time, as manufactures stop supporting old standards, gear wears out, breaks, etc we'll all end up with orphan pieces. A great mast, decent fuse but sucky old wing. Should I chuck a nice 97cm carbon mast or try to reuse it with better, more modern wings? Do we chuck all those nice old orange slingshot wings or try use them with more modern gear?
Yes, there is a risk and it may mean that if something goes sideways, we lose a day on the water. But if money is tight, that's a fair trade off for some.
Like you suggest, it's not for everyone. It's like bikes - some just want to go to a shop and get a new one with no worries. Others are willing to get an older bike and just update the relevant parts.
Select to expand quotePaducah said..BSN101 said..
Why??
Id not want to rely on connectors holding non compatible bits together while I was out FOILING!!! But I'm not a clever peep and I don't have the time to make test fail make more and constantly miss TOW. heaps of respect for those that do tinker, I'm just not one.
One good reason is that with so few standards, over time, as manufactures stop supporting old standards, gear wears out, breaks, etc we'll all end up with orphan pieces. A great mast, decent fuse but sucky old wing. Should I chuck a nice 97cm carbon mast or try to reuse it with better, more modern wings? Do we chuck all those nice old orange slingshot wings or try use them with more modern gear?
Yes, there is a risk and it may mean that if something goes sideways, we lose a day on the water. But if money is tight, that's a fair trade off for some.
Like you suggest, it's not for everyone. It's like bikes - some just want to go to a shop and get a new one with no worries. Others are willing to get an older bike and just update the relevant parts.
I fully agree.
That was what I mean.
I care about older stuff and upgrading gradually, not only for the money, but also for convenience, making things easy, to switch and test between friends, limited space in a cramped car or VAN, walking back and forth a 500 meter low/high water line wide beach, for ecological reason to limit the amount of useless plastic, etc, and many more reasons.
But I heard and understand it's difficult or impossible to make a connector from a conical carbon mast to a conical aluminum fuselage insert.
Select to expand quoteFormuIa said..
I've heard rumors that one of the big brands will introduce a universal standard in order to invite other foil manufacturers for cross compatibility.
That would be great but the new One Lock system of Slingshot is not such a compatible start I guess.
The Gong aluminum masts are very well built, inexpensive and can take Tuttle or plate.
They have fuselage extensions to let their foils be used for windfoiling. They just released a new version which is mainly for very wide wings being used by heavy riders.
So the V2 gear is on sale.
When you are ready for a carbon mast theirs are available for excellent prices.
I'd consider their V2 Curve in the Large size as a good step from your existing gear along with the same size X-over tail to calm it down.
The Slingshot Hoverglide system will no longer be available going forward. What spare parts are currently available are the last ones.
Foiling systems are a cluster**k in my opinion. Every brand does their own thing. Very little is compatible between brands and even worse brands constantly change their own systems. This would be all fine if there was one front wing, one stab, one fuse. Instead even within brands you have an insane range of components. Most shops can only afford to hold the most commonly bought items everything else needs to be custom ordered. And every time a brand decides to change their system you are left with a pile of expensive foil gear with near not hope of getting spare parts for.
It reminds me of the early days of windsurfing and kiting.
Select to expand quotestehsegler said..
Foiling systems are a cluster**k in my opinion. Every brand does their own thing. Very little is compatible between brands and even worse brands constantly change their own systems. This would be all fine if there was one front wing, one stab, one fuse. Instead even within brands you have an insane range of components. Most shops can only afford to hold the most commonly bought items everything else needs to be custom ordered. And every time a brand decides to change their system you are left with a pile of expensive foil gear with near not hope of getting spare parts for.
It reminds me of the early days of windsurfing and kiting.
A custom foil shaper should stand up and make a generic foil platform.
Like the generic power adaptors with lots of connector pieces and voltage settings for all you smartphones and electronic devices. Another similar source of annoyance.
For starters :
- A generic mast, carbon or aluminum, with on the downside a connector system for deep tuttle or double track (like the Sabfoil Kraken system) and on the top side the smallest head with lots of connector pieces fitting over this head fixed firmly with up/down and sideway screws, for connection with the diverse fuselages.
- Later generic fuselages with connector pieces for different foils. The short middle fuselage of Gong seems a good idea leading to connector pieces fitting to all kind of foils.
And we as a consumer should stop buying gear incompatible with the generic setup.
A kind of customer foil revolution saying no to propriatary systems. Power to the foilers. Spread the word.
I found :
www.onixenterprises.com/products-adaptors
www.jimstringfellow.com/
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
The Gong aluminum masts are very well built, inexpensive and can take Tuttle or plate.
They have fuselage extensions to let their foils be used for windfoiling. They just released a new version which is mainly for very wide wings being used by heavy riders.
So the V2 gear is on sale.
When you are ready for a carbon mast theirs are available for excellent prices.
I'd consider their V2 Curve in the Large size as a good step from your existing gear along with the same size X-over tail to calm it down.
Correct.
I see the Foil Front Wing Curve V2 L
Wingspan: 90 cmChord: 17.1cmWingspan?/area ratio: 6.8Thickness: 1.9cmVolume: 1.21LProjected area: 1199 cm?Extrados area: 1238 cm?Felt area: 1200 cm?, is a bit similar to PTM 926.
Some wingers I know use Foil Front Wing Curve V2 and Foil Front Wing Sirus V2 XL (with downwindboard). I guess better for wingfoil.
I see a lot of Gong, mainly for wingfoil, not yet windfoil.
Here under wingfoilers I guess > 50 % uses Gong gear.
Do you or somebody else use Gong for windfoil ?
From what I know and heard :
1. Gong has to its fuselage :
- a front extension of 13 cm
- rear extensions of 8,5 cm or 16 cm.
1 front and rear extension can be combined.
Gong says me this is all very solid and firm.
2. I got this answer from Gong :
Now I fully understand your system of extensions of the fuselage.
You have rallonge avant 13 cm and rallonge arri?re 8,5 cm or 16 cm.
So by this I'm quite sure using front and/or rear extension (can both be combined ?) : Yes both can be combined.a. the fuselage will be long enough for wind(surf)foiling. YEs
I think all the equipment can be bought on your website. Do you also have physical shops, retailers ? yes only one in France in Saint-Nazaire, you ll be welcome anytime !
Now my question, maybe stupid : I understand these foils are made for pumping and winging, but could I use these frontfoils for wind(surf)foiling in very little wind ? I understand turning would need a big turning circle. But could I fly at very low windspeeds ? yes it will be ok but it requires titanium fuselage and HM mast and then not possible to put the front extension.
Do all your front wings and stabilizer fit on the same fuselage ? Same screws and holes for Fluid, Wing X-Over, Wing Curve, Veloce and Curve ? I need interchangeability. yes all the same fuselage !
So for very big wide foils (I think more for wingfoil and pumping) titanium fuselage and HM mast.
Maybe Gong could be a good start for a generic platform for connectors, but I'm not sure about that. Depends on the size of the bits and pieces.
I have used gong for windfoil for last few years, first with front extension, now without it. As long as you have tracks on your board, you can find a balance point easy, with Tuttle box front extension could help, all depends on board model.
Even with extension I have used foils with a wing span up to 110 cm, going bigger is not a good idea I think.
At your weight and in wind conditions where you don't use a sail bigger than 6m the big foils are aren't needed.
1300cm2 with an AR of ~7 is plenty.
Select to expand quoteYellowHelmet said..Grantmac said..
The Gong aluminum masts are very well built, inexpensive and can take Tuttle or plate.
They have fuselage extensions to let their foils be used for windfoiling. They just released a new version which is mainly for very wide wings being used by heavy riders.
So the V2 gear is on sale.
When you are ready for a carbon mast theirs are available for excellent prices.
I'd consider their V2 Curve in the Large size as a good step from your existing gear along with the same size X-over tail to calm it down.
Correct.
I see the Foil Front Wing Curve V2 L
Wingspan: 90 cmChord: 17.1cmWingspan?/area ratio: 6.8Thickness: 1.9cmVolume: 1.21LProjected area: 1199 cm?Extrados area: 1238 cm?Felt area: 1200 cm?, is a bit similar to PTM 926.
Some wingers I know use Foil Front Wing Curve V2 and Foil Front Wing Sirus V2 XL (with downwindboard). I guess better for wingfoil.
I see a lot of Gong, mainly for wingfoil, not yet windfoil.
Here under wingfoilers I guess > 50 % uses Gong gear.
Do you or somebody else use Gong for windfoil ?
From what I know and heard :
1. Gong has to its fuselage :
- a front extension of 13 cm
- rear extensions of 8,5 cm or 16 cm.
1 front and rear extension can be combined.
Gong says me this is all very solid and firm.
2. I got this answer from Gong :
Now I fully understand your system of extensions of the fuselage.
You have rallonge avant 13 cm and rallonge arri?re 8,5 cm or 16 cm.
So by this I'm quite sure using front and/or rear extension (can both be combined ?) : Yes both can be combined.a. the fuselage will be long enough for wind(surf)foiling. YEs
I think all the equipment can be bought on your website. Do you also have physical shops, retailers ? yes only one in France in Saint-Nazaire, you ll be welcome anytime !
Now my question, maybe stupid : I understand these foils are made for pumping and winging, but could I use these frontfoils for wind(surf)foiling in very little wind ? I understand turning would need a big turning circle. But could I fly at very low windspeeds ? yes it will be ok but it requires titanium fuselage and HM mast and then not possible to put the front extension.
Do all your front wings and stabilizer fit on the same fuselage ? Same screws and holes for Fluid, Wing X-Over, Wing Curve, Veloce and Curve ? I need interchangeability. yes all the same fuselage !
So for very big wide foils (I think more for wingfoil and pumping) titanium fuselage and HM mast.
Maybe Gong could be a good start for a generic platform for connectors, but I'm not sure about that. Depends on the size of the bits and pieces.
Gong may be popular in Europe, but virtually unseen down here in Oz. And the problem is every brand will say their connection system is the best so unlikely to adopt another. Axis has a large following here and a few brands have started offering the Axis connection system on their wings.
Select to expand quoteairsail said..
Axis has a large following here and a few brands have started offering the Axis connection system on their wings.
Can you name those brands? Would be great to get an idea which brands are even remotely interchangeable.
I've been thinking this for a while, and hopefully it'll get sorted out as the sport evolves.
As customers, we're kind of stuck with what we've got because of how expensive it can be to switch brands.
The current foil situation feels like how it would be if sails only worked with a specific mast and/or boom combo from the same brand and model line. I get that brands optimize designs for their own gear packages, but at least with most sails I can still mix and match masts/booms from other brands if I want to. Especially good to know when you bust something traveling and just want to be on the water.
On the flip side, most brands are making solid foils now, so maybe it's just about finding what works for you within their range?
Anyway, rant over.
Making fun of the situation it's like buying new socks and ending with a new wardrobe.
But we all realize it's not so easy.
I think the comparison with the cable adaptor for electronic devices is good.
In to avoid cable clutter and endless pile up of cables and chagers in nature where everything ends up eventualy, Europe decided to impose a standard for the chager plug USB-C and I tink 5 V DC.
OK, very good but then Apple says when want other connectors with more possibilities and by imposing the USB-C connector Europe restricts future development, etc.
If we could build up compatibility from the board downwards (if board in the water) to the foil that would be good.
First : the double track, with if necessary the Slingshot Jack plate for deep tuttel boards, that seem to phase out.
Second : a compatible system for mast - fuselage connection would be great.
Like : foilcedrus.com/collections/masts/products/evolution-wind-mast
But so expensive.
The mast end could be the smallest possible the a bigger adoptor.
But will this be solid, no slack, etc. ?
Third : compatibility of the foils, that will be very difficult.
But having compatibilty of 1 and 2 would already be great and having different interchangeable lower packs.
Unfortunately as we speak right now 2 firms are starting systems were there is a smaller or no separate fuselage. For good reasons : strenght, stability and weight being able to use carbon :
- Gong : with a small intermediate fuselage where the 2 foils with their fuselage extensions fit into.
- Slingshot : without separate fuselage, the 2 ends of the fuselage being incorporated in the foils.
I understand the advantages of these systems, but having no fuselage anymore ends the possibilty of a compatible mast / fuselage connection.
All I know is with all the foil changes affecting both foil lines I currently have (starboard and slingshot), I can get previous gen gear fairly cheap as everyone rushes to buy the latest and greatest.
I don't think foil manufacturers want their equipment to be interchangeable. They want you to buy into their infrastructure and be captured as a customer. 
...Kyle and Stringy are the exception.
( project Cedrus and Stringfellow foil solutions)
Konrad is also offering a mast which can fit fuselages to make other brands.
None of which are windfoiling brands from what I can see though.
Select to expand quotestehsegler said..airsail said..
Axis has a large following here and a few brands have started offering the Axis connection system on their wings.
Can you name those brands? Would be great to get an idea which brands are even remotely interchangeable.
Konrad and One Ocean Sports are the Axis adoptees that I know of, smaller brands that didn't want to reinvent the wheel. This also means they tap into the large Axis user customer base.
Select to expand quotestehsegler said..
Foiling systems are a cluster**k in my opinion. Every brand does their own thing. Very little is compatible between brands and even worse brands constantly change their own systems. This would be all fine if there was one front wing, one stab, one fuse. Instead even within brands you have an insane range of components. Most shops can only afford to hold the most commonly bought items everything else needs to be custom ordered. And every time a brand decides to change their system you are left with a pile of expensive foil gear with near not hope of getting spare parts for.
It reminds me of the early days of windsurfing and kiting.
One of the guys here has 4 complete foils in his garage because he wanted different fuses or masts or wing sizes. All the same brand too(SB) Im on Patrik and the original is cross compatible for slalom free ride wind sup wave ding with carbon or alloy parts and DT or plate. The newer AEON is premium and not designed to cover every style. There are intelligently designed kits available that have our interests and wallets considered.
Select to expand quotemiamiwindsurfe said..
I have used gong for windfoil for last few years, first with front extension, now without it. As long as you have tracks on your board, you can find a balance point easy, with Tuttle box front extension could help, all depends on board model.
Even with extension I have used foils with a wing span up to 110 cm, going bigger is not a good idea I think.
I just took a closer look and Gong has a cunning system you could say without proper real long fuselage but with a small short middle T-connector piece joining (1) the mast (2) the front wing with it's fuselage extension an (3) the stabilizer with it's fuselage extension. By this the main length of the fuselage is in carbon. And mainly the middle connector piece exists in all kind of versions allowing V2 mast with V3 front foil and V3 stabilizer, etc. so having compatibily in the own brand back and forth. These T-connector pieces have an insert for the mast. The connection feels very firm.
If we could have adaptors to this insert for the (1) Slingshot Hover Glide aluminum mast, (2) Sabfoil (Kraken mast) and/or (3) Slingshot Phantasm mast (but this last thing will be difficult if not impossible because the Phantasm mast connection has a very large, mainly long connector piece).
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..
All I know is with all the foil changes affecting both foil lines I currently have (starboard and slingshot), I can get previous gen gear fairly cheap as everyone rushes to buy the latest and greatest.
Right, that's the advantage of future incompatibility.
But then if we could have versatile connectors in all ways we could combine all benefits.
I'm sure this would make you fly faster and earlier, or at least it would feel so, as a cheaper ride would certainly feels a happier and less expensive ride.
