Do you really need a foil board? Light wind planing on slalom gear

I love Windsurfing for speed. But on a Foil with a large wing(and even more so a super shovel from a slingshot) you will not gain. Therefore, for a light wind of 6-8 knots with a sail of 9.4 with a large wing, it makes sense to ride. And when it blows normally, you need to ride on the flat water on the fin.

There is no wrong way to windsurf! Assuming you are not hurting anyone. Glad to see your having fun mate!

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Paducah said..
Balz (and many of us would disagree)

not a bad video. But Greg is the coolest. I would say the man is king Foil

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Paducah said..
Balz (and many of us would disagree)

Wow! That guy is good!! I'm impressed with those skills. Those sail flips are skills I never mastered in windsurfing but could do those very same sail flips in windskating. What a video, and something to shoot for on foil.

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antonmik said..

Paducah said..
Balz (and many of us would disagree)

not a bad video. But Greg is the coolest. I would say the man is king Foil

I saw a vid ages ago of a kiter doing this type of riding. So fluent, if i kited this is what id do, definately! Poetry even. This guy is a true innovator & artist on the water.

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stehsegler said..
.... Arguably using a 5.3 wave sail is a lot more fun than using a 9.4 race sail.

That point is, indeed, arguable. Nonetheless, one I agree with.

That it's substantially cheaper is not.

Non-foilers and new foilers seriously misunderstand what foiling is all about and how to do it.

It's not just for light wind. It's for all winds and almost all conditions. You can carve and blast and cruise and slash in any wind and pretty much any water state. Take a look at the freeride kite foilers and see what they're up to.

The only limitation is the depth of the water you start in.

You only need one board, one mid-sized surf oriented foil and a normal quiver of wave sails. With that you can ride and have huge fun in 10-30+ knots. Add a tiny sail and keep riding in over 40 knots.

You're no longer limited to wearing a groove in the same piece of water. In cross onshore winds you can do 4-5km up the coast in 15-20 minutes. Add 10 minutes if you're doing beats into wind. You can then do and endless downwind wave run, repeating each wave section as much as you like.

Once you have your foiling kit sorted you can mothball most of the other gear and the huge van or trailer needed to lug it around.

You can add a dedicated wave board to the quiver to surf quality waves. That's not really necessary if you live on a bay. Slashing bay chop on a foil is pure joy.

You can pursue purpose specific foiling kit for racing or whatever. That's overkill for most people.

Different length masts can be useful, but not necessary. The main need for that is shallow water riding. Once you're skills are up you can ride in shallow water and stay high on the foil. You only need a bit of depth at the start of the session.

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Gorgo said..
Non-foilers and new foilers seriously misunderstand what foiling is all about and how to do it.

It's not just for light wind. It's for all winds and almost all conditions. You can carve and blast and cruise and slash in any wind and pretty much any water state. Take a look at the freeride kite foilers and see what they're up to.

The only limitation is the depth of the water you start in.

You only need one board, one mid-sized surf oriented foil and a normal quiver of wave sails. With that you can ride and have huge fun in 10-30+ knots. Add a tiny sail and keep riding in over 40 knots.

You're no longer limited to wearing a groove in the same piece of water. In cross onshore winds you can do 4-5km up the coast in 15-20 minutes. Add 10 minutes if you're doing beats into wind. You can then do and endless downwind wave run, repeating each wave section as much as you like.

Once you have your foiling kit sorted you can mothball most of the other gear and the huge van or trailer needed to lug it around.

You can add a dedicated wave board to the quiver to surf quality waves. That's not really necessary if you live on a bay. Slashing bay chop on a foil is pure joy.

You can pursue purpose specific foiling kit for racing or whatever. That's overkill for most people.

Different length masts can be useful, but not necessary. The main need for that is shallow water riding. Once you're skills are up you can ride in shallow water and stay high on the foil. You only need a bit of depth at the start of the session.

for the past 8 years or so I've enjoyed one board with 3-4 wave sails in 12-35 knot winds. I don't own a foil

I totally agree with all you say Magic ride I've had lots light wind kit over the last 35 plus years but am so stoked to nail this foiling for light wind stuff .
I've only been out on foil three times so complete numpty at moment but last session I had the light bulb moment after three hours on and in water and loads of wipe outs. The feeling of flight is amazing ! The additional benefits for old twat like me is how easy it will be on my old nackerd body .
I think when I've totally nailed foiling I'll still keep my wave board tho and probably reduce down my quiver.
My thoughts are windfoiling is just another option to getting on the water and not a replacement for fin sailing similar to my mountain biking I've got a analogue Mtb and a full sus E Mtb I use both depending on where I'm riding so my emtb will not replace the analogue Mtb. Just give me more options.
I wish this windfoiling had come along years ago .

I also think a light wind slalom quiver is a lot of fun. For me 8.6 and 82 wide board is the limit though in size so maybe not really light wind but with a 47 fin it is a good option if the wind is (gusty) 7-10 m/s. I can also use a 7.0 if the wind is around 10 m/s and not to choppy.

If the wind is more I use a wave quiver so I have 2 quivers that cover a large wind range.I did buy a np Alu foil and although not optimal it does get me going if the wind is 5-7 m/s with the 8.6 (which is to light with a normal fin even with my weight 83 kg).

I have the idea it's better to have separate equipement for foil and fin performance wise. Maybe freestyle is ok to have hybrids. Doesn't come cheap yet :).

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stehsegler said..
To the original poster... in 10-15 knts you would be on a 5.3 wave sail with a foil and it wouldn't be a stop and go situation. Arguably using a 5.3 wave sail is a lot more fun than using a 9.4 race sail.

It is also a hell of a lot easier to up-haul. I used to up-haul 12 metre sails in light winds. No fun! Big difference between up-hauling a 9 to 12 metre sail and a 5 to 6 metre sail, especially as you get older.

Same weight, also SF.
I wonder if I had a 75cm wide slalom board and 48 fin, how that would compare to 111 Isonic with 44? Or the 122 Naish?

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Paducah said..
3:12 Someone didn't get the memo about foils. The blue Gaastra is ripping.

I guess the blue GA is Seb Koerdel.

We are just starting to figure out light wind foiling, whereas light wind slalom is way more developed.

When I foil on my infinity 99 and a 5.7 I mostly see boats and birds, and 1 or 2 other foilers. No slalom guys and no kites

Couple things.

First, yes, a foil definitely extends the wind range down to lighter winds than what most gear can keep planing in. Formula is an exception, but you need REALLY big sails. I foil in light winds with a 6.4 where I used to need a minimum of 10.0 on formula gear.

Second, we should not consider foiling as an alternative to finning. Instead, it is a whole new sport that happens to use the same sails (albeit smaller) and boards that we used to use for finning. The Zen of foiling is completely different from the Zen of finning.

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antonmik said..
I'm not a very experienced foiler yet.

It's a whole new skill you are learning. (Segler would go as far to say as a new sport.) Your friends, especially judging from the their sails you've shown us have had years of experience and are faster windsurfers than most. At this point it's not unreasonable that they are going faster than you. When you see the PWA foil guys keeping up with their friends, remember that they've been doing this almost daily for three years. That's a lot of practice.

What will begin to happen over the next months to year:You will learn to go faster - you'll learn to deal with the increased foot pressure at speed, your stance will improve and change to handle the power; and you'll gain the confidence to sail the same gear in a much wider wind range.

You'll also learn to go much further up and downwind than they are. Yes, in a gust they may/will be a touch faster than you but it's not going to matter as often you'll be off going in a completely different direction. They are very fast but only in a limited range of directions. Change the conversation to hard upwind or deep downwind and things are a lot more even.

You'll start nailling those foiling jibes or getting close. Yes, they may still be a touch faster than you in the straight but the jibes will absolutely kill them in light air.

You'll be gliding through those 6-7 knot lulls that find them falling off the plane and standing there waiting for the next puff. Your ability to glide through lulls is significantly better than your finned friends. And, when you can chain light air jibes together, you will be in another dimension.

I posted a video from the Defi Japan day 4 live feed in the Defi Japan thread. Take a look at it at those time stamps.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Fin-vs-foil-Defi-Japan-Day-5?page=2
The foils and fins in those conditions had two entirely different races. You aren't there yet but this is where you are headed. And, if you just want to go out and drag race your buddies on a slalom board on any particular day - that's great. No one here is against it. Foiling is supposed to be fun. As long as you keep it fun, all these things will happen with time. Good luck, let us know how it's going and if you need help on something specific.