Does a maneuverable low wind board exist?

I am 75 kg, looking for a board with us track (to facilitate better trim) and somewhat maneuverable (not necessarily freestyle), which is easy to get going at 7 kn. And maybe dip my toe into wing foiling. Pretty flat to choppy at these wind speeds (only wind swell). Current front wings: Sabfoil 790, 950 and 1100.
Any suggestions?I have been looking at Slingshot wizard. 130 is likely best low wind, but without straps closer to the mast track, will not support wing (maybe i should forget looking for a combo). The 114 has additional front straps, but is sometimes criticized for being more difficult to get up and maybe not great for slogging.

Any experiences with these (or others) for very light wind, and maybe a hint of winging.

I have the JP Hydrofoil 135 (2018-ish), but it is better for high aspect faster freeride (F4 "racing") with no really inboard straps.

If you are in NA get a custom Reef Warrior board - exactly what you are looking for...
Very well made. I've had mine for 2 years / ~ 90 sessions and it's like new. Super fun

www.reefwarriorsboards.com/foilboard

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WsurfAustin said..
I'm 64kg and slog a ton on the SS114. Not fun, but I can always make it back if the wind goes flat. Launching , just need to keep the weight back so the nose doesn't submarine.

A +50 l board, but slogging is "no fun" and starting needs extra attention to avoid nose dives. Sorry, that sounds wrong to me. I'm 25 kg heavier than you are and also on a +50 l board, and both slogging and starting is easy. Tacks are super-easy, too, and almost always dry, despite limited skills. Of course, my board (Stingray 140) is quite long. I've owned a shorter board with similar volume, and a board of similar length but just 115 l. Of these, the 115 l was definitely easier to slog and start, but nowhere nearly as easy as the SR 140. I even used the Stingray to start out winging, which worked quite well after figuring out how a necessary adjustment or two.

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snowsurf said..
I have been looking at Slingshot wizard. 130 is likely best low wind, but without straps closer to the mast track, will not support wing (maybe i should forget looking for a combo).

You don't need straps to start winging - in fact, using straps as a beginner is probably a bad idea. You need straps when you start jumping, but that will be on a much smaller board. That said, the Wizard 130 might not be a great board to start winging because the foil tracks are so far back. SS does not even list it on their long list of wing boards.

Hard to tell, because Balz can clearly foil up in 8kt on an dinner-tray and a 4.5, but how about his Basilisk:
www.mb-boards.com/e/products/one-board-concept/basilisk-sup-foil-wing.asp

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joe87879 said..
If you are in NA get a custom Reef Warrior board - exactly what you are looking for...
Very well made. I've had mine for 2 years / ~ 90 sessions and it's like new. Super fun

www.reefwarriorsboards.com/foilboard

Living in Norway, so not just "around the corner". But interesting boards - looks very robust. They seem to have deep tuttle and not us track, so what kind of fuselages/foils match these boards well?

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WsurfAustin said..

snowsurf said..
I am 75 kg, looking for a board with us track (to facilitate better trim) and somewhat maneuverable (not necessarily freestyle), which is easy to get going at 7 kn. And maybe dip my toe into wing foiling. Pretty flat to choppy at these wind speeds (only wind swell). Current front wings: Sabfoil 790, 950 and 1100.
Any suggestions?I have been looking at Slingshot wizard. 130 is likely best low wind, but without straps closer to the mast track, will not support wing (maybe i should forget looking for a combo). The 114 has additional front straps, but is sometimes criticized for being more difficult to get up and maybe not great for slogging.

Any experiences with these (or others) for very light wind, and maybe a hint of winging.

I have the JP Hydrofoil 135 (2018-ish), but it is better for high aspect faster freeride (F4 "racing") with no really inboard straps.

FWIW,
I'm 64kg and slog a ton on the SS114. Not fun, but I can always make it back if the wind goes flat. Launching , just need to keep the weight back so the nose doesn't submarine.

I am used to boards with somewhat little volume in front of mast, "jumping/sliding" quickly around the mast when tacking and standing behind mast when uphauling. So, maybe I should not dismiss the SS114 yet.

Merry Christmas snowsurf!

Are you wanting to foil in 7 knots of wind or foil at 7 knots of board speed?
Take off with seven knots of wind on Wind Foiling is pretty rare. Foiling at 7 knots of board speed is easy on most gear with a couple of good pumps.

If it is light air performance you are after I doubt very much if going to a board that is less stable, has lower volume and is harder to uphaul will help you with that.

Try a 9 meter on your current board and work on your pumping skills if sub 10 knot wind speed is your goal.

The super short maneuver oriented slingshot gear will be more fun once the lulls are more than 10knots.

You said you want "somewhat maneuverable" and since you do not need the most extreme and lowest swing weight wouldn't it be more fun to have a board that can SAIL not slog in 7 knots of wind? A little bit of length and some volume forward of the sail really helps with that. If the foil is forward of the tail and the sail track is close to foil the swing weight can be comparable to the super short boards. So it is possible to have a user- friendly board in the water that can whip through the turns in the air but the big manufacturers have not gone that route.

Be weary of all the crossover boards that have tail kicks with no release edge and/or beveled rails at the tail. These can be hard to get foiling when using a windsurf sail. Plus the cross over boards are heavy with all the footstrap inserts. It's a bummer because there a bunch of these boards that come soo close but have fatal flaws for use in windsurf foil.

The Top Gun boards are awesome if you can get one they are worth the wait, he will build ya one with tracks if you want. That MB basilisk could be a good one for ya. Maybe you can find a local shaper to build you something that captures all these elements at volume that suits your size.

Happy Foiling and Holidays!

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joe87879 said..
If you are in NA get a custom Reef Warrior board - exactly what you are looking for...
Very well made. I've had mine for 2 years / ~ 90 sessions and it's like new. Super fun

www.reefwarriorsboards.com/foilboard

Second this. I had Casey do a board for me last spring. Couldn't be happier with it.

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utcminusfour said..
Merry Christmas snowsurf!

Are you wanting to foil in 7 knots of wind or foil at 7 knots of board speed?
Take off with seven knots of wind on Wind Foiling is pretty rare. Foiling at 7 knots of board speed is easy on most gear with a couple of good pumps.

If it is light air performance you are after I doubt very much if going to a board that is less stable, has lower volume and is harder to uphaul will help you with that.

Try a 9 meter on your current board and work on your pumping skills if sub 10 knot wind speed is your goal.

The super short maneuver oriented slingshot gear will be more fun once the lulls are more than 10knots.

You said you want "somewhat maneuverable" and since you do not need the most extreme and lowest swing weight wouldn't it be more fun to have a board that can SAIL not slog in 7 knots of wind? A little bit of length and some volume forward of the sail really helps with that. If the foil is forward of the tail and the sail track is close to foil the swing weight can be comparable to the super short boards. So it is possible to have a user- friendly board in the water that can whip through the turns in the air but the big manufacturers have not gone that route.

Be weary of all the crossover boards that have tail kicks with no release edge and/or beveled rails at the tail. These can be hard to get foiling when using a windsurf sail. Plus the cross over boards are heavy with all the footstrap inserts. It's a bummer because there a bunch of these boards that come soo close but have fatal flaws for use in windsurf foil.

The Top Gun boards are awesome if you can get one they are worth the wait, he will build ya one with tracks if you want. That MB basilisk could be a good one for ya. Maybe you can find a local shaper to build you something that captures all these elements at volume that suits your size.

Happy Foiling and Holidays!

Merry Christmas utcminusfour!

Great input with good "reality check" points!

I want to windfoil in 7 knots of wind speed. I also believe that at such light wind, I need to keep my weight inboard, and therefore want inboard footstraps. I realize (now :-D ) that maneuvers will require more wind or waves. But I certainly do not want a heavy board to get a 2-in-1 or 3-in-1.

I guess that the main reason for not thinking of using the JP Hydrofoil 135 as a low wind board, is that its inboard straps are still pretty far outboard (board is 86 wide). But the width and bottom shape should work well for low wind launches. I have used both the Sabfoil 790 and 950 on that board, but not been able to get the balance dialed in properly. For the 950 I was thinking of shimming (make the stab point more downwards), as I struggled to lift it earlier than 9 knots board speed - I was pumping my Cheetah 6.5 from a lower board speed.

My plan with the JP was using the F4 high aspect foils (90cm/870cm2 w/100cm fuse and 78cm/760cm2 w/85cm fuse) that I got as a package with the board (second hand, all are 2018) with my Turbo 7.5. I expect this setup to require at least 10-12 knots.

I got the Sabfoil 1100 this winter - not tested yet... -11C (12F) outside now. I am curious about how far in/out my ideal front foot position will be in low wind on this setup. Maybe I can try to use it on the JP with frontstraps set very open (placing feet two more centimeters towards center).

If this works out well, I might rethink what I need (look further into recommendations here). If it doesn't, I might be looking for a SS130 v3 which I believe that I can get at a reasonable price. I understand that this board feels very responsive, despite its width.

I guess that I should go skiing and let this process in the back of my mind... I often hunt for deals, as I do not like to spend full retail prices on windsurfing and foiling equipment. It has become so expensive.

Thanks for all advices from everyone - Happy Holidays... and Happy Foiling for you in the Southern Hemisphere!

Yes it does. 89 litres MB-Boards Pegasus. Pretty low wind I'd say.

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snowsurf said..

I do believe that there is more wind here than one might initially think. Just look at the easy water start with a small sail while holding the boom (not mast and sail), and the rise straight up on the foil without any pumping with the small sail. Might of course be luck with gusts, although I could not see any. Combined with a good pilot.

Do you know which front wing is being used?

You'd be surprised in how light wind it's possible to water start a light weight rig.



The sail in the foiling clip above is a 5.6 m2 freestyle sail with a featherlight mast. Using the same "swim with the leg that's still in the water" technique. The foil is Sabfoil w1100 (2100 cm2), and I am 72 kg. That said, the 5.6 m2 sail was indeed a bit too clumsy on that board, the 4.8 feels much better. And for sure somebody noticeably heavier would need more volume to get going in light winds.

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snowsurf said..

Do you position the foil mast differently depending on wind strength? I was thinking that placing it a little forward in light wind might explain the early lift... or maybe the w1100 just lifts so early.

Which stabilizer do you use with the w1100? Any shimming?

s483 with the w1100
s450 with the w790
s421 with the w720

I used to shim with the Pegasus (that had a tuttle box) so I had the same familiar feeling with different setups. And later with a different board with tracks I actually ended up using the same shim settings - meaning I did not need to change the mast location when the conditions/foils changed.

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Taavi said..

snowsurf said..

Do you position the foil mast differently depending on wind strength? I was thinking that placing it a little forward in light wind might explain the early lift... or maybe the w1100 just lifts so early.

Which stabilizer do you use with the w1100? Any shimming?

s483 with the w1100
s450 with the w790
s421 with the w720

I used to shim with the Pegasus (that had a tuttle box) so I had the same familiar feeling with different setups. And later with a different board with tracks I actually ended up using the same shim settings - meaning I did not need to change the mast location when the conditions/foils changed.

How much do you shim each of these setups?

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John340 said..
I pushed the low wind limits of my wave Windfoil gear during a light wind New Year's Eve session. The wind was 7 to 9 kts with the occasional gust to 10, with small (400mm) wind waves. I used a wind meter to measure the wind. I was using a Predator 110, Freak 5.9 & Slingshot PTM926. I weigh 86kgs after Christmas excess. I needed 9 to 10 kts and a couple of good waves to pump up but could fly through the 7kt lulls. My 75kg friend on a 80 litre wing board, 6m wing and north HA 1200 foil was pumping up in 7 to 8 kts.

Thanks for sharing, John. Very relevant! I guess that I with 75 kg should be able to fly up in a knot less on that equipment.