Hey everyone,
This has really been bugging me lately. I can't reach 50 kmh on my slalom gear even when fully powered up. This is in moderately choppy conditions since I'm riding in Viganj. I am not really asking for advice cause I can't post videos yet since I'm new here. Most importantly I am 68kg and am curious how fast i can go with my weight when riding slalom and if I am even able to ride so fast with my weight in chop. Also if you have any guess to what's wrong even though you don't have much information I'd appreciate it 
.
You will find this thread interesting:
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Gps/How-to-get-that--flying-on-the-edge--feeling-
I'm your weight, and the only way I can go fast in chop, is to find which way the chop runs, in relation to the wind.
It doesn't always run directly down wind. So find where the chop is at the most angle to the wind, and run parallel to the chop in the most down wind direction. Then bear away gradually until the chop starts slowing you down. I can get close to 60km/hr doing this.
Your weight is not the sole factor holding you back from going quicker than 50kph. Weight is definitely an advantage when you're trying to go fast consistently through chop. But being in the same weight range as you, i can tell you that you can definitely go faster.
without more info, any more answers than that are based on pure speculation and wild stabs in the dark.
Assuming you have tuned your sail and board perfectly, then what Decrepit said. Unless your a PWA slalom sailor, going fast is either about finding high wind and flat water or if the is no flat water, then finding a spot where the angle to the wind and the angle of the waves is offset so you can run parallel to the waves at an angle of greater than 110 degrees.
I'm roughly around , maybe a bit under your weight and I'm stoked to get anything over 26kts in chop.
28. 03kts is my best going over the backs of 60cms plus rollers. That was scary..
I'm on freerace gear.
HI norfix,I was also stuck on a speed I could not get past ,I then brought a smaller 92 litre Patrik slalom board and learnt how to run down wind ,first run on that little board I smashed my PB by 3 knots ,
I then knew I was invincible ,
I had a look on gps-speedsurfing.com to see where the fastest speeds were, the 500m track is displayed on the map, but that seems only on recent sessions after 2013. The fast speeds were 2013 and earlier, and they havent posted since. So thats no help. Do you know any of the faster sailors? There is one recent, but he went straight out www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=381951&uid=24437&spotid=1567
As mentioned above, finding somewhere where the chop is at an angle to the wind so you can sail at a deeper angle is key. But I guess your spot has no sandbars or shallow areas near the shore where this might happen.
I was talking about speeds recently with a local, who had been given some tips from sailors at Weymouth, UK, one of our speed spots. When you are going across the wind and not deep, using too large a sail, for power, is actually slower than using a smaller one because of the extra drag. I've also been told this by fast speed sailors. So its not always a case of to go faster you need a larger sail. Do you have a small slalom board? For your weight, 80litre?
Speeds are average of 5 10 second runs.
ps. no light sailors under 77kg, mostly heavyweights going fast.
First off thank you for all the advice I've been reading bunch of different threads you guys sent me and I've found that I should definitely try getting more lift since I don't really feel like flying away even when the strongest of gusts hit. Also I think I understand what you are saying with riding through the chop faster, cause I've experienced this on my own and it does seem impossible to ride right across it fast.
Thank you for answering my question though, cause now i know my weight isn't the problem and I am more motivated than ever to go to the beach and try trimming my gear better. I don't have any experience on seabreeze so I don't really know whether to continue this thread in some time when i find other issues or whether to create a new one. Either way I can conclude that after just a year of windsurfing actively there is still so much to learn about gear trim and the trim affects the speed so much that it might be the difference between 20kts and 30kts.
Select to expand quotePhilUK said..
I had a look on gps-speedsurfing.com to see where the fastest speeds were, the 500m track is displayed on the map, but that seems only on recent sessions after 2013. The fast speeds were 2013 and earlier, and they havent posted since. So thats no help. Do you know any of the faster sailors? There is one recent, but he went straight out www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=381951&uid=24437&spotid=1567
As mentioned above, finding somewhere where the chop is at an angle to the wind so you can sail at a deeper angle is key. But I guess your spot has no sandbars or shallow areas near the shore where this might happen.
I was talking about speeds recently with a local, who had been given some tips from sailors at Weymouth, UK, one of our speed spots. When you are going across the wind and not deep, using too large a sail, for power, is actually slower than using a smaller one because of the extra drag. I've also been told this by fast speed sailors. So its not always a case of to go faster you need a larger sail. Do you have a small slalom board? For your weight, 80litre?
Speeds are average of 5 10 second runs.
ps. no light sailors under 77kg, mostly heavyweights going fast.
I am using a 121l board as my big board with 8.6 (I don't have a different big board), 106l with 7.0 and 7.7, with a 36cm fin on 7.7 and 34cm on 7.0. I don't have a smaller board since I don't get strong winds but if i were to get one i am looking for a 90l probably. Also i am waiting for new fins to arrive and I have never tried a different fin so it might be a big difference in speed I don't know 
Edit: I am trying to approach slalom sailing not necessarily speed sailing. I just don't have the conditions to do that
I'm no slalom sailor, but I can't go fast on big gear, there's just too much weight and drag.
Also it's weedy and shallow here, big pointer fins are a real pain, and that's what you need to make big gear work.
So my advice is probably irrelevant for your conditions.
Select to expand quoteNorfix said..PhilUK said..
I had a look on gps-speedsurfing.com to see where the fastest speeds were, the 500m track is displayed on the map, but that seems only on recent sessions after 2013. The fast speeds were 2013 and earlier, and they havent posted since. So thats no help. Do you know any of the faster sailors? There is one recent, but he went straight out www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=381951&uid=24437&spotid=1567
As mentioned above, finding somewhere where the chop is at an angle to the wind so you can sail at a deeper angle is key. But I guess your spot has no sandbars or shallow areas near the shore where this might happen.
I was talking about speeds recently with a local, who had been given some tips from sailors at Weymouth, UK, one of our speed spots. When you are going across the wind and not deep, using too large a sail, for power, is actually slower than using a smaller one because of the extra drag. I've also been told this by fast speed sailors. So its not always a case of to go faster you need a larger sail. Do you have a small slalom board? For your weight, 80litre?
Speeds are average of 5 10 second runs.
ps. no light sailors under 77kg, mostly heavyweights going fast.
I am using a 121l board as my big board with 8.6 (I don't have a different big board), 106l with 7.0 and 7.7, with a 36cm fin on 7.7 and 34cm on 7.0. I don't have a smaller board since I don't get strong winds but if i were to get one i am looking for a 90l probably. Also i am waiting for new fins to arrive and I have never tried a different fin so it might be a big difference in speed I don't know
Edit: I am trying to approach slalom sailing not necessarily speed sailing. I just don't have the conditions to do that
I am exactly your weight and I my best speed on "big" gear does not cross 28 knots. Big for me has been Isonic 111/Futura 71/Patrik 110 and 7.3 to 8.0 sails. With my old Carbon art 52, or now AV Modena Slalom 88L, and a 6.0-6.6 sail the speed goes up 3-4 knots. I just don't seem to have the technique to go fast with big sails and I quickly get overwhelmed by our gusty local conditions.
In favor of getting a small slalom board. Even at my weight up to a point a large slalom feels more planted and secure than a small one. But put in some more wind, formed chop and a little swell and on a large slalom I start to feel like a passenger, not a pilot. With a small slalom the limit of comfort is much higher. The carbon art 52 was great, but the AV Modena 88 liters is the best, it feels like cruising around until you look at the GPS. A modern 60 wide is a great size for our weight, and takes me home no problem if the wind drops. 62, at 5-10 liters more, would also work very well.
Select to expand quoteduzzi said..Norfix said..PhilUK said..
I had a look on gps-speedsurfing.com to see where the fastest speeds were, the 500m track is displayed on the map, but that seems only on recent sessions after 2013. The fast speeds were 2013 and earlier, and they havent posted since. So thats no help. Do you know any of the faster sailors? There is one recent, but he went straight out www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=381951&uid=24437&spotid=1567
As mentioned above, finding somewhere where the chop is at an angle to the wind so you can sail at a deeper angle is key. But I guess your spot has no sandbars or shallow areas near the shore where this might happen.
I was talking about speeds recently with a local, who had been given some tips from sailors at Weymouth, UK, one of our speed spots. When you are going across the wind and not deep, using too large a sail, for power, is actually slower than using a smaller one because of the extra drag. I've also been told this by fast speed sailors. So its not always a case of to go faster you need a larger sail. Do you have a small slalom board? For your weight, 80litre?
Speeds are average of 5 10 second runs.
ps. no light sailors under 77kg, mostly heavyweights going fast.
I am using a 121l board as my big board with 8.6 (I don't have a different big board), 106l with 7.0 and 7.7, with a 36cm fin on 7.7 and 34cm on 7.0. I don't have a smaller board since I don't get strong winds but if i were to get one i am looking for a 90l probably. Also i am waiting for new fins to arrive and I have never tried a different fin so it might be a big difference in speed I don't know
Edit: I am trying to approach slalom sailing not necessarily speed sailing. I just don't have the conditions to do that
I am exactly your weight and I my best speed on "big" gear does not cross 28 knots. Big for me has been Isonic 111/Futura 71/Patrik 110 and 7.3 to 8.0 sails. With my old Carbon art 52, or now AV Modena Slalom 88L, and a 6.0-6.6 sail the speed goes up 3-4 knots. I just don't seem to have the technique to go fast with big sails and I quickly get overwhelmed by our gusty local conditions.
In favor of getting a small slalom board. Even at my weight up to a point a large slalom feels more planted and secure than a small one. But put in some more wind, formed chop and a little swell and on a large slalom I start to feel like a passenger, not a pilot. With a small slalom the limit of comfort is much higher. The carbon art 52 was great, but the AV Modena 88 liters is the best, it feels like cruising around until you look at the GPS. A modern 60 wide is a great size for our weight, and takes me home no problem if the wind drops. 62, at 5-10 liters more, would also work very well.
Oh I thought you reach the same speeds with big gear and small gear with good enough technique. But you might be right about getting the 90l board in terms of understanding what speeds and feelings I'm looking for when riding any gear. If I were getting a 90l board what are the ideal sail and fin sizes? I should probably have a small board for sails 6.2 and maybe 7.0 but I have no clue about the fins. Maybe a 32cm?
Select to expand quoteNorfix said..duzzi said..Norfix said..PhilUK said..
I had a look on gps-speedsurfing.com to see where the fastest speeds were, the 500m track is displayed on the map, but that seems only on recent sessions after 2013. The fast speeds were 2013 and earlier, and they havent posted since. So thats no help. Do you know any of the faster sailors? There is one recent, but he went straight out www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=381951&uid=24437&spotid=1567
As mentioned above, finding somewhere where the chop is at an angle to the wind so you can sail at a deeper angle is key. But I guess your spot has no sandbars or shallow areas near the shore where this might happen.
I was talking about speeds recently with a local, who had been given some tips from sailors at Weymouth, UK, one of our speed spots. When you are going across the wind and not deep, using too large a sail, for power, is actually slower than using a smaller one because of the extra drag. I've also been told this by fast speed sailors. So its not always a case of to go faster you need a larger sail. Do you have a small slalom board? For your weight, 80litre?
Speeds are average of 5 10 second runs.
ps. no light sailors under 77kg, mostly heavyweights going fast.
I am using a 121l board as my big board with 8.6 (I don't have a different big board), 106l with 7.0 and 7.7, with a 36cm fin on 7.7 and 34cm on 7.0. I don't have a smaller board since I don't get strong winds but if i were to get one i am looking for a 90l probably. Also i am waiting for new fins to arrive and I have never tried a different fin so it might be a big difference in speed I don't know
Edit: I am trying to approach slalom sailing not necessarily speed sailing. I just don't have the conditions to do that
I am exactly your weight and I my best speed on "big" gear does not cross 28 knots. Big for me has been Isonic 111/Futura 71/Patrik 110 and 7.3 to 8.0 sails. With my old Carbon art 52, or now AV Modena Slalom 88L, and a 6.0-6.6 sail the speed goes up 3-4 knots. I just don't seem to have the technique to go fast with big sails and I quickly get overwhelmed by our gusty local conditions.
In favor of getting a small slalom board. Even at my weight up to a point a large slalom feels more planted and secure than a small one. But put in some more wind, formed chop and a little swell and on a large slalom I start to feel like a passenger, not a pilot. With a small slalom the limit of comfort is much higher. The carbon art 52 was great, but the AV Modena 88 liters is the best, it feels like cruising around until you look at the GPS. A modern 60 wide is a great size for our weight, and takes me home no problem if the wind drops. 62, at 5-10 liters more, would also work very well.
Oh I thought you reach the same speeds with big gear and small gear with good enough technique. But you might be right about getting the 90l board in terms of understanding what speeds and feelings I'm looking for when riding any gear. If I were getting a 90l board what are the ideal sail and fin sizes? I should probably have a small board for sails 6.2 and maybe 7.0 but I have no clue about the fins. Maybe a 32cm?
I am sure one can ... but I can't! somebody above mentioned PWA level sailors. There is a video of Andrea Cucchi casually braking the 35 knots over 500 meters barrier with 7.5-7.8 sails and what looks like an AV Modena 73/118 liters. He does that just to compare sails in their line up. No sweat. He is just cruising at 35 knots. At Garda, in chop. I never touched 35 knots over 500 meters.
With the AV Modena 88L I am using a Tectonics Phoenix 31 with the 6.0 and a Phoenix 33 with the 6.5. But you have a 34 so I would stick with that first. A 7.0 would work fine with a 62 wide, not sure with a 60, although the AV is very happy with 6.5, but you could try before investing in a new sail.
Select to expand quoteduzzi said..Norfix said..duzzi said..Norfix said..PhilUK said..
I had a look on gps-speedsurfing.com to see where the fastest speeds were, the 500m track is displayed on the map, but that seems only on recent sessions after 2013. The fast speeds were 2013 and earlier, and they havent posted since. So thats no help. Do you know any of the faster sailors? There is one recent, but he went straight out www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=381951&uid=24437&spotid=1567
As mentioned above, finding somewhere where the chop is at an angle to the wind so you can sail at a deeper angle is key. But I guess your spot has no sandbars or shallow areas near the shore where this might happen.
I was talking about speeds recently with a local, who had been given some tips from sailors at Weymouth, UK, one of our speed spots. When you are going across the wind and not deep, using too large a sail, for power, is actually slower than using a smaller one because of the extra drag. I've also been told this by fast speed sailors. So its not always a case of to go faster you need a larger sail. Do you have a small slalom board? For your weight, 80litre?
Speeds are average of 5 10 second runs.
ps. no light sailors under 77kg, mostly heavyweights going fast.
I am using a 121l board as my big board with 8.6 (I don't have a different big board), 106l with 7.0 and 7.7, with a 36cm fin on 7.7 and 34cm on 7.0. I don't have a smaller board since I don't get strong winds but if i were to get one i am looking for a 90l probably. Also i am waiting for new fins to arrive and I have never tried a different fin so it might be a big difference in speed I don't know
Edit: I am trying to approach slalom sailing not necessarily speed sailing. I just don't have the conditions to do that
I am exactly your weight and I my best speed on "big" gear does not cross 28 knots. Big for me has been Isonic 111/Futura 71/Patrik 110 and 7.3 to 8.0 sails. With my old Carbon art 52, or now AV Modena Slalom 88L, and a 6.0-6.6 sail the speed goes up 3-4 knots. I just don't seem to have the technique to go fast with big sails and I quickly get overwhelmed by our gusty local conditions.
In favor of getting a small slalom board. Even at my weight up to a point a large slalom feels more planted and secure than a small one. But put in some more wind, formed chop and a little swell and on a large slalom I start to feel like a passenger, not a pilot. With a small slalom the limit of comfort is much higher. The carbon art 52 was great, but the AV Modena 88 liters is the best, it feels like cruising around until you look at the GPS. A modern 60 wide is a great size for our weight, and takes me home no problem if the wind drops. 62, at 5-10 liters more, would also work very well.
Oh I thought you reach the same speeds with big gear and small gear with good enough technique. But you might be right about getting the 90l board in terms of understanding what speeds and feelings I'm looking for when riding any gear. If I were getting a 90l board what are the ideal sail and fin sizes? I should probably have a small board for sails 6.2 and maybe 7.0 but I have no clue about the fins. Maybe a 32cm?
I am sure one can ... but I can't! somebody above mentioned PWA level sailors. There is a video of Andrea Cucchi casually braking the 35 knots over 500 meters barrier with 7.5-7.8 sails and what looks like an AV Modena 73/118 liters. He does that just to compare sails in their line up. No sweat. He is just cruising at 35 knots. At Garda, in chop. I never touched 35 knots over 500 meters.
With the AV Modena 88L I am using a Tectonics Phoenix 31 with the 6.0 and a Phoenix 33 with the 6.5. But you have a 34 so I would stick with that first. A 7.0 would work fine with a 62 wide, not sure with a 60, although the AV is very happy with 6.5, but you could try before investing in a new sail.
Alright I'll try a smaller board if I find a good way to get one since I was looking for a small board already. The speed on big gear is making me curious though, how can pwa riders be so much faster? I get that they put in hours and hours of practice but I doubt there is that big of a technique difference. I may be wrong but It looks to me that the weight might be a difference with big gear. But still I might just be trying to make myself feel better and it really is a combination of perfect trim and technique. Also if I got the 90l i would also get a 32cm fin even though I'd cry when seeing the price. I think the fins are a massive help and from my experience it is well worth investing in a good fin.
If you only windsurfed for a year, you are doing really well. If you buy fins, try and get carbon fins, they are much better generally.
I think 26 kts over decent chop is about max . Those slalom guys that do over 30 in big chop are super human and only do it for a short time . Flat water is key .
Self preservation kicks in at about 50kph over chop, a few times I've thrown caution to the wind and regretted it shortly afterward
Select to expand quoteBen1973 said..
Self preservation kicks in at about 50kph over chop, a few times I've thrown caution to the wind and regretted it shortly afterward
Little guys can go fast so don't be too discouraged you just have to get everything working right for you - which I can't help with. But typically your settings, wind ranges and gear combinations will be different to heavy riders - and different to manufacturer guides because most of them I believe are based around bigger sailers especially for slalom/race type gear.
Fast in chop is too subjective as to what the chop is, we sail in chop here, short sharp ugly chop usually but not open ocean swell+chop, most sailers taking note of gps numbers can do high 20's to low 30's in knots, some faster - mid 30s semi-regularly
To learn to go faster, find flatter water. Sometimes, that can be even a different tide level and wind direction at the same spot, but often, you'll need to travel a bit.
Flat water makes it easy to go faster. Once you've gone faster on flat water, you'll probably find that you can also go faster in chop.
Select to expand quoteNorfix said..
Hey everyone,
This has really been bugging me lately. I can't reach 50 kmh on my slalom gear even when fully powered up. This is in moderately choppy conditions since I'm riding in Viganj. I am not really asking for advice cause I can't post videos yet since I'm new here. Most importantly I am 68kg and am curious how fast i can go with my weight when riding slalom and if I am even able to ride so fast with my weight in chop. Also if you have any guess to what's wrong even though you don't have much information I'd appreciate it .
Hi,
I was stuck at the same speed for quite a time, maxed around 51 km/h with my iSonic 123L or my Fox 105L. Always in 60-100cm chop.
Flat water is the key - first time I went to a flat water spot with my iSonic I hat 58.0 km/h (31.32kn).
rig/setup:
- rig a big sail, you need to be overpowered
- your board and sail need the right trim to fly, but not lift the nose too much. If the nose is too up, put the mast foot 1cm forward and the boom 2cm down. If the nose sticks to the water, do the opposite
- carbon fin helps, but wont do the miracle for you. I use a Z-fin.
course:
- go downwind 30 degrees
- go downwind!
- did I mention already: go downwind! That gives you a boost for another 10-15 km/h
- In big chop, ride on the face of the wave which forms a flat channel and helps you to go fast. The waves limit a bit the angle you can go downwind. If you go too downwind, you overtake the next wave over its back, which often makes the board touch the water more, and slows you down.
stance:
- front foot fully stretched, toes lifted up to fly the board on the lee rail
- rear leg slightly bent to dampen the chop
- close the gap - sail needs to touch your rear footstraps
- choose long harness lines - you can leverage your weight better which helps to handle larger sails
- stay committed with full body tension, whatever comes. The moment you reduce your body tension and the tension in your front leg, and move the body weight slightly towards the center of the board, your board will throw you off. Try to have your weight equally distributed on both feet.
Below is a chart from Maui Ultrafins where they calculated how fast you can go with different winds. With 20kn wind, around 32kn speed is reachable. But expect this only in really flat water.
In 60-80cm chop and 20kn wind, If you reach a 2 sec max of 50-55km/h (27-29kn), that's already really good. I'd say: try in flat water some times, then you know you can reach it, and then go to the choppy spot again and try to reach the speed in chop.
best,
mariachi76
