The committee has had a few requests lately to check files.
Remember it's a requirement that there is a file of your whole session, available for checking on request, and an approved device must produce that file.
Bending/breaking the rules can lead to bad feeling, and unnecessary unpleasantness, undermining the cohesion of GTC, community.
I agree, but how can it be determined if a file comes from an approved device? does it have a hardware signature?
We are happy to have a conversation with a real person who is not hiding behind a screen name.
If you man up and come forward with actual facts and evidence in place of unsupported wild allegations and ranting the committee can and will follow up as we have done in the past using procedures we already have in place.
It is up to every individual member to respect an uphold the rules. There is no conflict with upholding the rules and remaining on good terms with you friends.
Select to expand quotepowersloshin said..
I agree, but how can it be determined if a file comes from an approved device? does it have a hardware signature?
Yes. Files from different devices have unique characteristics.
I'm not part of gpstc anymore but I still gps & it's hard to escape the constant drama & crap surrounding it. I don't know how you can single out one team when INDIVIDUALS of many teams are doing similar... from devices to running tracks through several programs & mixing best results to posting off display only. Something that has been pushed by few is get rid of the small inaccurate interval results then the "just for fun" competition can become a little more inclusive of devices. None of these problems are new, I know of guys grabbing several "approved" navi's testing them all (all would read different) then they would pick the fastest two.
I still spend thousands each year, I use an approved device & I sail with/against those you have singled out. I don't care if navi, canmore or garmin as good sailors are just good period, I don't need excuses when guys beat me who've put in alot of effort, research & time on the water improving by bounds each year in less than ideal gps conditions. If i'm not up to pace that is up to me & I have to put in the effort to get faster.
Mud slinging at any team is just excuses, do you need to justify your expenses or even why you speedsail? That said if individuals are fudging the results then they are just lying to themselves, rather that is what i'd like to believe as unfortunately there is alot of ego in this sport & in a game where there is no umpire to give you out there are sailors whose self dillusion blinds them to who is properly fast on the water.
I have deliberately kept out of GPSTC admin and politics as my decision to resign from the GPSTC meant that the new admin committee needed to establish their own identity and authority without me interfering. My main reason for establishing the GPSTC was to create a team based culture within an individual sport, with the main purpose being to develop and build friendships within the community. I think in this respect the GPSTC has been a huge success! Just ask people travelling around Australia what the GPSTC has done. This I argue remains the most important thing and must not be lost. Also do not forget that windsurfing is also about fun and fitness, don’t lose sight of this while chasing “Numbers”, and focussing too much on what numbers the others do and how they get them. The competitive aspect of the GPSTC (as competition generally is) is a two edged sword. On the one side it creates motivation, excitement and a sense of achievement, and on the other side it brings out the ugly side of human nature like greed, jealousy, cheating, power plays…… It was the stress of the ugly politics of the GPSTC that led to my resignation. Remember the committee is made up of volunteers, they don’t get paid, they spend their time working for you for free, and they shouldn’t have to tolerate being abused. None of you pay fees, you get to play for free, and if you spend big on equipment it is your own choice no-one has forced you to have the biggest and best of toys, just enjoy that you have them. In life it is impossible to keep everyone happy, if the committee goes to the right, the people on the left will whinge like hell, and if the committee goes left those on the right will whinge. There is no one single solution to keep everyone happy. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the GPSTC it is only within the mindset and behaviour of human beings that problems are created. It is impossible to change the nature of human beings, the easiest thing to change is the mindset and expectations you have about the GPSTC and the people within it. Don’t lose sight of the friendships and fun of windsurfing, have a good think about why you are windsurfing? This doesn’t mean the GPSTC can’t be tweaked, offer respectful and constructive advice/solutions, and maybe share the load of being on the committee??
Select to expand quoteblackface said..
not as big a cry when your team had sessions removed....
the only reason boardcrazy is mentioned is because it represents a credible team posting solid data.........but ummmmmm yeah a little dodgy
instead of accepting that fact you will try and come after me
the post was about cheating
they asked for an example
do you disagree??????.
is boardcrazy with multiple contributors to the rankings using unapproved devices for a fairly long period not cheating
crying about having sessions removed like you hadnt been warned and strangley given time to adhere to the same rules as others, thats not cheating......
it is......tthe committees lack of leadership allowed it to go on for so long
and its thicking shiz for the rrest of us.....simple
if simon or any other pussy windsurfer wants a fight just come to budgy.....johnny miller and co. will be happy to meet you....
for yrs ive been listening to these threats....just come and find me....ill take your photo and post it on seabreeze and you can tell everyone about the day you got stood over by me.....easy
oh and stop cheating
haha I dont even know what to say execpt i have no interest in fighting some crazy guy over his internet rant about a fun competition that i think most of us really enjoy.
The main thing to remember in these kind of things is even if you dont agree with the people running the comps is that they usually donate there time for free and while most people are watching tv they working hard for the rest of us to have fun.
If anyone is interested in this topic go to NSW and GPSTC - NSW results for 2015 and though some of the comments
were deleted it goes to the underlying facts that a lot of us are wondering about scoring methods.
Read Sailquik response on 5/1/2016 to Jimbob and my comments about this issue.
Who checks the overseas scores? and what type of Gps are they using.
Wow this is a real shame it has got to this. Fighting is def not gunna help. Hey GPSTC committee can we just make it compulsory everyone has to post on KA72.
Select to expand quoteSteve Charles said...
Wow this is a real shame it has got to this. Fighting is def not gunna help. Hey GPSTC committee can we just make it compulsory everyone has to post on KA72.
Ditto
i agree just everyone post in ka 72 and there should be no issues ,as they say its just fun
Select to expand quoteSteve Charles said..
Wow this is a real shame it has got to this. Fighting is def not gunna help. Hey GPSTC committee can we just make it compulsory everyone has to post on KA72.
No.
We have been through that issue over and over.
While KA72 is a great service to all sailors and most of the time it give accurate results but it is far from infallible. In fact most of the disputes we have addressed are as a direct result of posters blindly accepting and posting grossly erroneous results from KA72. (eg. did you really believe that 40+ 2 seconds 'PB' was real when all the rest of your runs were in the mid 20's, or you did a 29 knots NM when you best 10 seconds run was 26???) Another issue we are dealing with is a prime example of this.
The file in question was rubbish. It was from an unapproved device which was clearly not even set up as well as it could be. It used 'Auto' track-points (not Doppler) so there were large gaps between data points all through it. GPS-Results and GPSAR-Pro rejected most of the file data as they should in these circumstances and gave some low results in only a couple of divisions and none in most. RealSpeed reads the track and rejects the huge spikes that were posted as the 2 second peak speed, and filters out the worst of the errors but not all. KA72 failed to reject the huge spikes and failed to reject results with only a few track-points many seconds apart. Fortunately, and in this case quite properly, it was queried, and the file sent in for checking.
This is just one reason, among many others already expanded upon, that this is a bad idea.
Select to expand quoteSteve Charles said..
Wow this is a real shame it has got to this. Fighting is def not gunna help. Hey GPSTC committee can we just make it compulsory everyone has to post on KA72.
I have said it before it's a easy fix! 
Select to expand quoteaussieboats said..
i agree just everyone post in ka 72 and there should be no issues ,as they say its just fun
See my reply above. That this would resolve any of the issues some seem to be obsessed by is actually not the case at all. In fact, it is hard to see how it would address any of the issues we have delt with to date.
Matt. It is not a fix at all.
What we need is for people to follow the rules and post from approved devices which are set up correctly.
We need people to think carefully about the results they get from whatever software they are using before they blindly accept it as correct.
And above all we need people to continue to trust and respect each others and their own integrity and help each other out.
If you see results that seem strange, draw them to the attention firstly of the poster, or to the team captain, and if that does not resolve it, the GPSTC committee.
MattDowse said..Select to expand quote
I have said it before it's a easy fix!
It's easy, but not good, and it probably doesn't even qualify as a "fix".
As Sailquik mentioned, we've been through this before, and there are many reasons why it hasn't been made compulsory.
In the end, you are responsible for your own data. If someone decides to try to game the system, then they will be found out eventually, and have to bear the social cost of being called out on it. Is it worth it?
Select to expand quoteSteve Charles said..
Wow this is a real shame it has got to this. Fighting is def not gunna help. Hey GPSTC committee can we just make it compulsory everyone has to post on KA72.
No, some don't for all kind of reasons. Remember folks its for fun, to be all inclusive and no sheep stations
Nebbian, what happened to 'blackface' posts? he was trying to make a point about dodgy data.
How do we find out about who is doing it, will you expose them or do we have to find out on the grapevine.
Its fun for most but not for all! Its fun with one GT-31 and posting on KA72.
sorry Swallowtail but who are you? Where do you sail? Where are you from? Are you even a member of the GPSTC? Should we be waiting to find out who you are from the grapevine?
Only 17 posts and one of them is a comment about somebodies posts who have been removed because they were adding fuel to this fire.
Select to expand quoteswallowtail said..
Nebbian, what happened to 'blackface' posts? he was trying to make a point about dodgy data.
How do we find out about who is doing it, will you expose them or do we have to find out on the grapevine.
Its fun for most but not for all! Its fun with one GT-31 and posting on KA72.
<div class="forumPostText">I think they deleted them because the guy was using dual accounts to try and support his arguments
Select to expand quotesailquik said...aussieboats said..
i agree just everyone post in ka 72 and there should be no issues ,as they say its just fun
See my reply above. That this would resolve any of the issues some seem to be obsessed by is actually not the case at all. In fact, it is hard to see how it would address any of the issues we have delt with to date.
Matt. It is not a fix at all.
What we need is for people to follow the rules and post from approved devices which are set up correctly.
We need people to think carefully about the results they get from whatever software they are using before they blindly accept it as correct.
And above all we need people to continue to trust and respect each others and their own integrity and help each other out.
If you see results that seem strange, draw them to the attention firstly of the poster, or to the team captain, and if that does not resolve it, the GPSTC committee.
Maybe ka72 should start a new gps comp .
the files are transparently available for scrutiny by all.still using approved gps units .6 to 8 knot 2sec on a 5 by10 is common on the gold coast with all the buildings in the way.
Most if not all of us are honest that i have met.
Select to expand quoteswallowtail said..
Nebbian, what happened to 'blackface' posts? he was trying to make a point about dodgy data.
How do we find out about who is doing it, will you expose them or do we have to find out on the grapevine.
Its fun for most but not for all! Its fun with one GT-31 and posting on KA72.
I didn't delete his posts, but they were deleted (by another admin) due to complaints. I don't know who he is in real life, or on seabreeze, or even on the GPS Team Challenge.
Just a general comment:
Basing my happiness on an LCD readout on my GPS (or even compared to someone else's numbers) was something that I gave up long ago. I'm happier for it.
I too was a big supporter of mandatory posting via KA72 but it has been proven that KA72 itself is not perfect all the time - in fact as Sailquik has mentioned, KA72 doesn't always filter suspect trackpoints etc. unlike the other software on the market e.g. realspeed/ GPSResults GPSPAR etc.
So where to from here considering this still seems to be a very raw subject?......I would like to explore whether the GPSTC has the capacity to store say a week's / fortnight's or a month's worth of track files for anyone to be able to download and run through their own software for checking if they believe it may contain some erroneous numbers (and before someone bleats on about secret spots etc I don't believe that to be a valid argument). Nothing would stop you posting to GPSTC either manually via your preferred software programme(s) or auto upload facility via KA72, although you would be required to upload the track (it'd take no more effort than uploading a photo or vid*)
I see this as a win win for all parties i.e.those for mandatory posting via KA72 and those against using KA72 as the one stop shop for posting.
*Nebs, how much work would this entail to incorporate into the website or is it just too onerous? rough calcs of half a meg per file average times 1400 sessions per fortnight equates to about 700MB of storage capacity (please correct)
Select to expand quotesausage said..
I too was a big supporter of mandatory posting via KA72 but it has been proven that KA72 itself is not perfect all the time - in fact as Sailquik has mentioned, KA72 doesn't always filter suspect trackpoints etc. unlike the other software on the market e.g. realspeed/ GPSResults GPSPAR etc.
So where to from here considering this still seems to be a very raw subject?......I would like to explore whether the GPSTC has the capacity to store say a week's / fortnight's or a month's worth of track files for anyone to be able to download and run through their own software for checking if they believe it may contain some erroneous numbers (and before someone bleats on about secret spots etc I don't believe that to be a valid argument). Nothing would stop you posting to GPSTC either manually via your preferred software programme(s) or auto upload facility via KA72, although you would be required to upload the track (it'd take no more effort than uploading a photo or vid*)
I see this as a win win for all parties i.e.those for mandatory posting via KA72 and those against using KA72 as the one stop shop for posting.
*Nebs, how much work would this entail to incorporate into the website or is it just too onerous? rough calcs of half a meg per file average times 1400 sessions per fortnight equates to about 700MB of storage capacity (please correct)
Believe it or not I was wondering the same thing on my lunch break. I don't think that it would be ridiculously hard, you could even have a system where the file is public by default, but the poster could tick a box to make it private if they wanted. Then only an admin or the team captain could download it.
If it's something that would solve this issue then I'd be happy to code this in. It might even make it possible to repost to GPS-SS again
Why can't all team captains be issued Realspeed software?
The team captain is then responsible for posting all PB and scoring (Jellybean) files.
You could just dump the 2sec that would remove 99% of spikes just a thought 
.
here come the red thumbs lol 
Holly snapping duck poo, there's cheaters in the GPSTC, here I was thinking that it only happens in footy, cricket, horse and dog racing, cards and board games and or even in marriages, now I'm told it's even happening here. Well put me on record, I don't give a flying rats, yeh I know that's just me but it's important to you, woopie doo. Mike makes an informative post, someone has a winge and ferk me it's on 
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I thank the past and present GPSTC committee for everything they do, I thank all the sailors I have met through this comp for your friendships, beers, laughs and making me realise I'm not as good as I thought I was.
I know I might sound like a clown and this is a very important discussion to some, but I'll just stick to the rules, sail, post and smile, it ain't hard, just saying
Select to expand quotenebbian said..sausage said..
I too was a big supporter of mandatory posting via KA72 but it has been proven that KA72 itself is not perfect all the time - in fact as Sailquik has mentioned, KA72 doesn't always filter suspect trackpoints etc. unlike the other software on the market e.g. realspeed/ GPSResults GPSPAR etc.
So where to from here considering this still seems to be a very raw subject?......I would like to explore whether the GPSTC has the capacity to store say a week's / fortnight's or a month's worth of track files for anyone to be able to download and run through their own software for checking if they believe it may contain some erroneous numbers (and before someone bleats on about secret spots etc I don't believe that to be a valid argument). Nothing would stop you posting to GPSTC either manually via your preferred software programme(s) or auto upload facility via KA72, although you would be required to upload the track (it'd take no more effort than uploading a photo or vid*)
I see this as a win win for all parties i.e.those for mandatory posting via KA72 and those against using KA72 as the one stop shop for posting.
*Nebs, how much work would this entail to incorporate into the website or is it just too onerous? rough calcs of half a meg per file average times 1400 sessions per fortnight equates to about 700MB of storage capacity (please correct)
Believe it or not I was wondering the same thing on my lunch break. I don't think that it would be ridiculously hard, you could even have a system where the file is public by default, but the poster could tick a box to make it private if they wanted. Then only an admin or the team captain could download it.
If it's something that would solve this issue then I'd be happy to code this in. It might even make it possible to repost to GPS-SS again
Brilliant Ben - love the idea posters could nominate their file as private. I really believe this would eliminate all the angst out there atm. I think it only fair to compensate for your time to undertake any reprogramming though and will raise with the powers that be.
Firie, I'm worried mate - you have been making way too much sense with your posts and fear you have become the Seabreeze Oracle. Maybe time to increase your intake of rum
BC has asked me to take this post down because he thinks it's targeting his team.
Was this part of the removed posts?
Any way I certainly wasn't directing this at any particular team or person.
But It's sure created a very unexpected response, I must have hit a bit of a raw nerve.
But from Ben and Brian's posts, it's had a constructive outcome, so I'll be making no move to take the thread down.
Brilliant idea guys! Downloadable data, should take away any innuendo, and make all results easy to check.
Select to expand quoteStuthepirate said..
Why can't all team captains be issued Realspeed software?
The team captain is then responsible for posting all PB and scoring (Jellybean) files.
I know one WA team captain checks every PB his team posts.
I don't check every PB but I have a pretty good idea of my team's capabilities and will ask for a track to check if a number seems extraordinary - such as one post of 38 last week - posted via KA72, when the other top sailors were getting 33. I know that sailor is quite capable of doing 38 knots but on this day it was unlikely. The other clue was the 2 sec was 9 knots better than the 5X10. Checking the file via realspeed showed the correct 2 sec was 31.5 or thereabouts.
So posting via KA72 does not eliminate erroneous results.
Checking of questionable team results by the team captain is a good work around.
Checking all PB and jellybean posts would be a lot of work.
Also Realspeed can't check files from the Canmore device
This is beside the point. All Decrepit is asking is to Remember it's a requirement that there is a file of your whole session, available for checking on request, and an approved device must produce that file.
Not too much to ask, surely?
Select to expand quotenebbian said..sausage said..
I too was a big supporter of mandatory posting via KA72 but it has been proven that KA72 itself is not perfect all the time - in fact as Sailquik has mentioned, KA72 doesn't always filter suspect trackpoints etc. unlike the other software on the market e.g. realspeed/ GPSResults GPSPAR etc.
So where to from here considering this still seems to be a very raw subject?......I would like to explore whether the GPSTC has the capacity to store say a week's / fortnight's or a month's worth of track files for anyone to be able to download and run through their own software for checking if they believe it may contain some erroneous numbers (and before someone bleats on about secret spots etc I don't believe that to be a valid argument). Nothing would stop you posting to GPSTC either manually via your preferred software programme(s) or auto upload facility via KA72, although you would be required to upload the track (it'd take no more effort than uploading a photo or vid*)
I see this as a win win for all parties i.e.those for mandatory posting via KA72 and those against using KA72 as the one stop shop for posting.
*Nebs, how much work would this entail to incorporate into the website or is it just too onerous? rough calcs of half a meg per file average times 1400 sessions per fortnight equates to about 700MB of storage capacity (please correct)
Believe it or not I was wondering the same thing on my lunch break. I don't think that it would be ridiculously hard, you could even have a system where the file is public by default, but the poster could tick a box to make it private if they wanted. Then only an admin or the team captain could download it.
If it's something that would solve this issue then I'd be happy to code this in. It might even make it possible to repost to GPS-SS again
This would be helpful for the team captains. Waiting for a team member to send you his track can take some time.
Select to expand quoteWindxtasy said..
>>>
So posting via KA72 does not eliminate erroneous results.
Checking of questionable team results by the team captain is a good work around.
Checking all PB and jellybean posts would be a lot of work.
Also Realspeed can't check files from the Canmore device
This is beside the point. All Decrepit is asking is to Remember it's a requirement that there is a file of your whole session, available for checking on request, and an approved device must produce that file.
Not too much to ask, surely?
Thanks Anita,
Also realspeed doesn't process Alphas from the GW52 very well either.
As you say it seems KA72 does very little in the way of filtering out spikes or invalid results.
Mandatory posting via KA72 would disadvantage those who go to the trouble of making sure they have good data, and advantage those with bad data.
I hope we've killed this crazy idea stone dead!
