I recently got a Naish force 5 5.7m wave sail, which is classed as their power wave sail.
It rigged a bit flat compared to other sails that I have used in the past. It's rigged on an Ezzy mast which is slightly stiffer than a Naish mast so it should have more shape nearer the luff. I then rigged a 2010 Naish Boxer on the same mast and it sets with heaps more shape and much more pull when sheeted in. Both did fill out when the wind was stronger but I want to use these in light winds.
I also rigged a Goya 5.7m Banzai, again a power wave sail, and it too rigged fairly flat with pretty much the same depth as the force 5. I noted that the Goya did have more bounce to it when sheeted in and pumped. Also filled out in stronger winds.
I then rigged an Ezzy 5.5m Wave sail and that had heaps more pre shaping in the seams but less rotation but when sheeted in seemed to have heaps more pull. Filled out with zero wind as theres heaps of pre shaping.
I am 90kg, usually use a quad 103 Lorch or a thruster 101 Exocet X wave, sailing in marginal wind conditions 15 to 22 knots with a strong side rip.
So my question is for light wind wave sailing which is best ?
The Goya and Ezzy belonged to someone else but both Naish Sails are mine. I prefer the Boxer but the force 5 is 10 years newer so in my brain it should be heaps better.
The boxer seems to suit the quad fin better and the force 5 suits the thruster better. But I really wanted one sail to suit both boards.
It's very difficult to answer this, not least because you seem to be rigging sails on different-brand masts.
But the power you get from a sail is a function of the sail area, the fullness of the cut, and the tightness of the leech.
So, for example, flat sails can seem surprisingly powerful if they are cut with a tighter leech.
Sails cut with a full head can feel powerful, simply because the power drive point is higher up.
The Naish Boxers you mention come in weird sizes and with an unusual profile, so let's leave that there...
Ezzy sails are not rotational sails, but are cut with broadseaming to give permanent fullness - so power and performance comparisons with other rigs are not possible.
But try this: The modern answer to getting planing and keeping going for the bigger guy is NOT to have a bigger or more powerful sail, but to use more float underfoot. And this is especially true for the sail sizes/windstrengths you mention.
Sadly, I don't know anything about Lorch or Exocet boards. But I wouldn't use a quad set up for 5.5m or 5.7m sails.
Yeah, just preference
Jason Polakow at 88 kg likes flat, twisty, draft forward lightweight wave sails.
Robbie Naish, barely 70 kg., likes heavy, draft back, strong, little twist sails.
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
Yeah, just preference
Jason Polakow at 88 kg likes flat, twisty, draft forward lightweight wave sails.
Robbie Naish, barely 70 kg., likes heavy, draft back, strong, little twist sails.
Naish is only 70 kg?
Yup...
Known him since 1986, sailed with him at BYC Beach and Kailua. Met him at trade shows in 1984.
Sailed with him through mid 90's, when he got up to 170 lbs from racing.
I stopped racing and didn't see him until around 2015, when he dropped back down to around 160 lbs.
At the movie 2 years ago, talking to him from 2' away, he seemed thin and drawn, maybe 70 kg at best.
He's short, buff, but now very thin.
In the years I've sailed with him, I went from a low of 138 lbs. in '86 to just over 185 lbs in 1994.
People change their weight.
.
Select to expand quoteMadge said..
It rigged a bit flat compared to other sails that I have used in the past. It's rigged on an Ezzy mast which is slightly stiffer than a Naish mast
Funny. I think that we have same Naish sails, even same years. I always rigged my 2010 boxer 6.2 on Nolimitz 400cm and it rigged pretty well. A month ago got Naish Force V 5.7 and also 2021 Naish RMD 400cm mast. Rigged Force on Naish mast and bottom 2 battens make quite a deep pocket so not flat. It obviously rigs well. lol My first time using Naish mast with Naish sail.. I like using masts as short as I can get away with. I also rig Naish Choppers on Severne red 370 and it sets super well.
Haven't rigged Boxer on that Naish mast yet.. Kind of super freezing outside. When I do I can post pictures.
I thought that Ezzy mast is softer than Naish not harder. So surprised that your Force rigs flat. It may also be that 2010 Boxer is designed for a touch stiffer mast and thus Ezzy yields more belly. But mast business is very tricky and I had counterintuitive results with other masts. Considering that same company may be gradually moving to CC can also add to the mix.
To compare Boxer 6m and Force 5.7m low end, I will likely need to take 2 sails when the wind is barely enough to plain on Boxer and switch sails. At my 85/87kg that wind is about 16-17 knots on 100L freestyle board.
Naish changed their masts in that time too. Back in boxer era the naish rdms seemed to have quite thick walls, heavy & almost hard top, maybe just stiff throughout length. Later ones similar walls/weight to everyone else & seem more cc, definitely prefer these newer ones.
The forces changed heaps from the 08 in avatar pic that I loved they went really soft feeling with change in head material. Then last force v's i had a few years ago (with monofilm window & short boom) I personally didnt really like, rigged a bit flatter but powerful on water & kinda unforgiving so went back to loft purelips. They also seem to rig slightly flatter on newer models than my old ones, though still have same loft feel/performance.
Select to expand quotemkseven said..
The forces changed heaps from the 08 in avatar pic that I loved they went really soft feeling with change in head material. Then last force v's i had a few years ago (with monofilm window & short boom) I personally didnt really like, rigged a bit flatter but powerful on water & kinda unforgiving so went back to loft purelips.
The 2020 Force V 5.7 I have the boom is 178. In boxer 6.2 180cm. Don't think it's a short boom in Force. Can you please describe unforgiving? What's you weight?
I think that based on Naish video
Looked back through maybe 2018 or even 2017 model, geez time flies. Forgot after that used severne blades then back to loft.
Weight... fatboy. Unforgiving in that I just found both several generations of loft & especially the severne blades as softer sails, both of which more similar in feel to the earlier forces which I loved.
Boom length shorter than what I had been using, to be fair lofts prior did use long boom so jumping back on forces at the time felt like big step. The naish was probably comparable to the blades in boom.
Im sure naish forces have continued to evolve & are great sail. I was just after a particular feel & it's all personal.
Lots of parameters going on. Ezzy masts are slightly flex top, Naish sails used to require full hard top. So you want to use a short bottom with a long top. 340+400 ezzy = hard top 370.
Then, you can look to see how they rig. Different mast curves will require different rigging techniques and usually result in decrease sail range.
When using a flex top mast in a hard sail the top will flex early without reaching the marked downhaul specs, it'll then need lots of outhaul tension to help batten rotation.
Finally the four sails you mentioned are all different and will behave differently.
