Hello
Though this is a topic which involves three different forums, I wanted to know experiences of someone who has practised float&ride wavesailing AND one of the other two foiling sports in 15 knots wave conditions.
I have experience of many years wavesailing and one year windfoiling in flat conditions. Getting into the water with shore break is a nightmare with windfoiling and I guess the same with wingfoiling. IMO the feeling of surfing the wave with the board in contact with the water should be better than with a foil, but there must be some conditions in which foiling is better than wavesailing, small soft waves or very light wind, on shore?, I guess.
Having a supsurfing board or a big floaty wave board I don't find many reasons to go foiling in side shore wave conditions.
Looking forward to hearing someone who is skilled in both disciplines, fin&foil in waves.
Not a good foiler nor foil wave rider, but there has not been lots of response so far.
When you look at wave foilers, most can be done with SUP. That Laird video was definitely SUP material.
That foil basically requires an outside reef break, so you don't ride onto shallow sand or reef.
Beach starting with a foil mast longer than 40cm would be challenging.
Not seeing any vids of wing SUP or windSUP so far.
There's a guy in Santa Cruz Ca who rides windSUP in breezes of 10+. Mostly thru kelp beds, so a foil would hang up constantly.
I've done a lot of float and ride sailing on my Goya 104 alongside the wing dingers in the local reef break. When the waves are good I'd rather be sailing as long as I can get upwind and there's enough to take off on the wave. On the days when the wind is fickle: enough to get you out there, not enough to do anything, then the dingers have more fun, especially if the waves are sectiony. Cheers Jens
Thanks. Which would be wind speed when wavesailing begins to beat wingfoiling? 14-15 knots?
Does wingfoiling has better performance than ws in onshore conditions?
Cheers
Nothing beats windsurfing man,nothing.The real thing. This summer I sailed repeatedly among bunch of wing foilers and had the chance to judge for myself. First, they look as if they suffer from sciatica with that posture... my goodness armed with helmets and attaching wires. Second, you should have contemplated what "fun" is getting on this thing with a shore break.. Third, they go around and around missing wave after wave... which was good for us windsurfers. They seem to get relieved after every jibe of theirs and they shout to each other reassuringly. On the beach they talk proudly looking at windsurfers as second class fossils. Because they will never admit that in fact the king is...naked. Modern watermen.
Both can be fun in the right conditions, wing foiling has salvaged a couple of coast trips for me now where either wind or swell didn't cooperate for wave good sailing. Up wind performance of a wing foil allows you more launching options to avoid shore breaks, definitely not the same lip smacking excitement you get on a wave board but a different kinda fun, about 3 to 1 wave count and definitely better than standing on the shore sooking about the crap conditions
Thanks. Maybe I will learn wingfoiling in future, but I think the marketing side of wingfoiling is quite far from reality. Normally, you don't have a reef break at your beach 300 meters far from sea shore, and you don't have in the same beach a no waves entry and, if you have it, it takes skill and time to get to the peak which complicates this so simple sport.
IMO, wingfoiling gives us an opportunity to realise the value of our old sport. I think a good way to enlarge the light wind range of wavesailing is having a big confortable wave board or supsurfing board for float&ride conditions. Increasing the volume of the board helps us to balance easier, to catch more waves, uphaul easily and get planning earlier maintaining the same wave sail size. I've recently bought a big waveboard for my size (105 l ultrakode) and it's amazing how it turns on the wave with my 70 kg. We didn't have this kind of boards 20 years ago. Our fault was thinking that the smaller board the better in any conditions. This radical race has been bad for the sport.
It happened something similar to me when I tried kitesurfing. I wanted only kitesurfing for increasing light wind range of windsurfing, but at 12 knots kites can fall from the sky while you can shlog back easily with your windsurfing board. My approach is the same with foiling and could be the problem. The good upwind performance of foiling is not at 10-12 knots but at 15 knots or more. Most of the marketing foiling footage we watch are taken at 20-25 knots. In those conditions you can get planning with your wavesailing board and you get upwind also, but less than foiling.
For the moment I only see windfoiling and wingfoiling for 12-15 knots flat or choppy conditions, but I'm open to know other good conditions from the people who has experience.
Most wingers I see in "waves" just make it out past the waves and foil around in windswell outside the break.
Then, when they finally get on a wave, they ride WAAY out on the shoulder avoiding the breaking part.
I have seen a few good SUP windsurf guys actually bottom turning and hitting the lip, but that requires more sideshore direction.
But when the wind is onshore, wing surfers can have great fun, and rip when others struggle to make it out on their much bigger boards.
My 1st experience in wavesailing was on a 12' Bic in closeout 3-5' shorebreak, Ocean Beach San Francisco.
I've always carried 100 liter wave boards as lightwind backup, since 1983.
Main board around 75 liters.
I think that the cross over is around 10-15 knots onshore. Under those conditions we can limp around but for what? Waves will have a crappy wind angle and pumping on will be difficult.
The dingers will have a much better time then. While they don't gouge hard in the critical section I enjoy seeing their endless glides bearing down swell and linking sections that would otherwise go unridden. Also the freedom they have regarding wind angle is good to see. Once on the plane they seem to be able to put the wing wherever they like.
Cheers Jens
If it's cross off, blowing at least 10-15 knts with a wave then its windsurfing for me all day long, you can't beet that feeling!!! I'm 80-82kg and float n ride on an 87ltr board (Quatro Pyramid 87), sure it can be challenging at times but definitely doable and I've had some epic session in those conditions and don't really feel the need for a bigger board.
I'vd had a couple of goes with winging and it had a certain amount of novelty fun for me, but not enough for me to invest in it - I much prefer the feeling of a sail to a wing. SO for me this summer I've ordered a Windfoil board and foil for those onshore light wind summer arvo sessions where there isn't much else going on, soft waves, light wind etc.... Slingshot Wizard 114 and Hoverglide Fwind V3, nice and compact for throwing around in the soft windswell etc... looking forward to something different on those less than average days - linking swells, carving, and cruising high above it all.... hopefully ;)
Select to expand quotebigdaz said..
If it's cross off, blowing at least 10-15 knts with a wave then its windsurfing for me all day long, you can't beet that feeling!!! I'm 80-82kg and float n ride on an 87ltr board (Quatro Pyramid 87), sure it can be challenging at times but definitely doable and I've had some epic session in those conditions and don't really feel the need for a bigger board.
I'vd had a couple of goes with winging and it had a certain amount of novelty fun for me, but not enough for me to invest in it - I much prefer the feeling of a sail to a wing. SO for me this summer I've ordered a Windfoil board and foil for those onshore light wind summer arvo sessions where there isn't much else going on, soft waves, light wind etc.... Slingshot Wizard 114 and Hoverglide Fwind V3, nice and compact for throwing around in the soft windswell etc... looking forward to something different on those less than average days - linking swells, carving, and cruising high above it all.... hopefully ;)
Good choice 
Riding crappy waves with windfoil kit is superfun but endless carving downwind is the best. Downwindable windswells are everywhere 
For me it goes like this in this order.
Breaking waves with >18kts=wavesailing
Breaking waves <18kts=windsup
Ocean swell=windfoil
Flat water=windfoil
I may start winging again now that wing design seems to have solved much of what I disliked about the early designs.
I can add some perspective as a windsurfer since 1979 , Kitesurfer since 2000,Kite foil 2017 and wingfoiling 2020. I'm almost exclusively riding in ocean waves.
This past year I've been wingfoiling about 80% of the time and I'm only now getting to the point where i'm solid in good waves
It take allot of time on foil to get good and most people you see have only been at it a few months so it's an unfair comparison to people who are experienced wave sailors. Riding the foil with wing in neutral using only the wave power takes serious skills to do well.
I've done allot of float and ride sailing in up to mast high waves in Pueto RIco there is nothing like for me it's the ultimate experience but conditions are so rare here which is why I took up kiting.
Now wingfoiling comes along and adds the ability to ride waves in any wind angle you can even go directly into wind on the wave. The point is you are not wanting to ride the breaking section the feeling is totally different.
I've been at Byron Bay for the past 2 months we have had great Northerly winds combined with South swells. For the kites and windsurfers it's onshore waves a few jumps and slashes here and there. For me on the wingfoil I pick up a wave at the Pass let go and ride all the way along the point through to the surf club over 500m it's exhilarating hitting speeds over 40kph on my HA foils cutting back as it slows then gunning as it speeds up it's technical and difficult.
Any windsurfer can learn to go backwards and forwards with a wing with minimal effort windfoilers will find it easier still, riding waves well is next level and we have not even mentioned downwinding. Now is the time to take up the sport before everyone gets really good
