I have an Armstrong 96l downwind board (2023 version) with the HS1550 v2, 232 stabilizer, 60cm fuselage and 72cm carbon mast. I'm using wings between 3m-7m. I'm 75kg. I have moved the mast all the way back.
I keep having the problem of my foil wanting to shoot out of the water. I have to apply a ton of front foot pressure which keeps me distracted and unable to progress (I have yet to learn how to gybe). My friend whose a pro also says the front foot pressure is excessive and said he had heard of using a shimmy for the mast, Armstrong sells base plates and I'm guessing that's what I need?
i'm occasionally on my armstrong DW 106L 7'2", and notice the same thing, but for me it's technique that's needed, not a shim. not saying a shim wouldn't help, i really don't know. but my takeoffs are considerably different than with my other boards. i need to gather speed as i point downwind and pump the wing. here's where i notice the foil wanting to shoot up, and if i don't position my feet properly, i wipe out. as soon as i feel the board lifting, i move my BACK foot a bit further forward but my FRONT foot a bit back. it seems odd to me, but this makes my takeoffs work. after riding in this position for a bit, any subsequent takeoffs seem easier (muscle memory kicking in). BTW, i used to ride with the mast all the way back, but moved it to 5. may seem counter intuitive, but it helped a lot.
Select to expand quotebeached57 said..
i'm occasionally on my armstrong DW 106L 7'2", and notice the same thing, but for me it's technique that's needed, not a shim. not saying a shim wouldn't help, i really don't know. but my takeoffs are considerably different than with my other boards. i need to gather speed as i point downwind and pump the wing. here's where i notice the foil wanting to shoot up, and if i don't position my feet properly, i wipe out. as soon as i feel the board lifting, i move my BACK foot a bit further forward but my FRONT foot a bit back. it seems odd to me, but this makes my takeoffs work. after riding in this position for a bit, any subsequent takeoffs seem easier (muscle memory kicking in). BTW, i used to ride with the mast all the way back, but moved it to 5. may seem counter intuitive, but it helped a lot.
I basically do the same thing during takeoffs but it becomes tedious and a bit anxiety inducing when I constantly have to press down with my front foot to keep the foil from jumping out of the water so to speak. It's like standing on a ticking time bomb, sometimes I'm able to press it down just as its about to shoot up and hear the foil make a splash sound, sometimes I can even recover from the foil shooting up. But I want to progress and I want smoother rides, it's especially tedious now when I'm riding back and having my left foot at the front of the board.
There are tons of benefits to a downwind board like safety imo but I really need to do something about this and from what I gathered it's about moving the mast even further back using an Armstrong base plate. I'm in Thailand now and will be for the next few months so hoping I can find an original Armstrong base plate somewhere around here. But if anyone has a better suggestion I'm all ears
oh sorry, i thought you were having this issue only during takeoffs, not while riding. if it feels like that all the time, it still may be your foot positioning. i find these DW boards require different (more precise) foot placement than regular boards. but i imagine you've already tried moving about looking for the sweet spot...so good luck with a resolution.
I've ridden the 7'2 and the 8'11 now the 8'2 DWP and have ridden with heaps of others in these boards and they have never needed a shim plate? But that's DW paddling - although i have winged them as well a few times. Plenty of other brands have needed a shim plate though dude to the bottom shape near the mast box. I'd say a1550 is a big foil to be winging with - like we were using 680s - maybe you are just over foiled and she's kicking back at you when you hit riding speed. Got a smaller foil to try.
Select to expand quotestrikingload said..
I have an Armstrong 96l downwind board (2023 version) with the HS1550 v2, 232 stabilizer, 60cm fuselage and 72cm carbon mast. I'm using wings between 3m-7m. I'm 75kg. I have moved the mast all the way back.
I keep having the problem of my foil wanting to shoot out of the water. I have to apply a ton of front foot pressure which keeps me distracted and unable to progress (I have yet to learn how to gybe). My friend whose a pro also says the front foot pressure is excessive and said he had heard of using a shimmy for the mast, Armstrong sells base plates and I'm guessing that's what I need?
I started on a similar Armstrong set up to you but now on more updated foils & mast with a DW board.
Have you tried shimming the tail 1 degree yet. it will reduce front foot pressure.
I ride with the mast just in front of middle . putting the mast back creates a less balanced, pitchy ride
Next I would go down in front foil size.
If you didn't want the latest foils an MA 1225 or MA 1000 would be much less likely to breach out . I have used both & they are nice to wing with & I am 90kg.
My currently daily driver is HA880 , 180 speed tail with 0.5 degree shim which is very balanced.
The mast stays in the same spot no matter foil choice , winging or SUP foiling
I don't know anyone who has tried mast base shimming.
Hope that helps
Almost everyone I see wants more forward adjust in their DW boards. I put longer more forward tracks in the all the time. so something is very wrong here. I suggest you show it to others and have them ride it as there are too many variables. Here you tend to get "buy this foil" from the fanboys.
mast shim is at least easy just buy some 1-2mm rigid plastic and cut some up
then u know what real shims to buy. But again, it's going to be last resort - something else is wrong.
Select to expand quotestrikingload said..beached57 said..
i'm occasionally on my armstrong DW 106L 7'2", and notice the same thing, but for me it's technique that's needed, not a shim. not saying a shim wouldn't help, i really don't know. but my takeoffs are considerably different than with my other boards. i need to gather speed as i point downwind and pump the wing. here's where i notice the foil wanting to shoot up, and if i don't position my feet properly, i wipe out. as soon as i feel the board lifting, i move my BACK foot a bit further forward but my FRONT foot a bit back. it seems odd to me, but this makes my takeoffs work. after riding in this position for a bit, any subsequent takeoffs seem easier (muscle memory kicking in). BTW, i used to ride with the mast all the way back, but moved it to 5. may seem counter intuitive, but it helped a lot.
I basically do the same thing during takeoffs but it becomes tedious and a bit anxiety inducing when I constantly have to press down with my front foot to keep the foil from jumping out of the water so to speak. It's like standing on a ticking time bomb, sometimes I'm able to press it down just as its about to shoot up and hear the foil make a splash sound, sometimes I can even recover from the foil shooting up. But I want to progress and I want smoother rides, it's especially tedious now when I'm riding back and having my left foot at the front of the board.
There are tons of benefits to a downwind board like safety imo but I really need to do something about this and from what I gathered it's about moving the mast even further back using an Armstrong base plate. I'm in Thailand now and will be for the next few months so hoping I can find an original Armstrong base plate somewhere around here. But if anyone has a better suggestion I'm all ears
The problem is not your board - sounds like you have a very lifty front wing and or the tail wing does not have the right AOA. Shim less lift in the tail and perhaps use a longer fuse and if that doesn't work, look for a new front wing. When I test foils I always prefer foils with progressive predictable lift profiles for ease of use. The freestyle boys, conversely, are looking for the aggressive lift profiles to get pop in their jumps. These are much harder for average guys to use.
Definitely shim that tail as a step one. Then try sliding the board forward.
The DW board was definitely not tested with the 1550V2 wing when being developed. The DW boards get going so quickly, the lifting moment is probably jarring compared to a slow wingboard being frantically pumped onto foil. The DW board was likely tested with the newer masts and newer wings. I think the newer masts might have a slight angle built in, so you may be on to something with the baseplate shim requirement.
One of the joys of using a DW board to wing is the ability to size down with foil and wing. That's a reeeally big foil to be using with a DW board and you are a light 75kg on top of it. Rather than trying to pound a square peg into a round hole with baseplate shims and stab shims to maybe make it kind of, sort of work.... I think you'd be much, much happier with a smaller foil that is way more suited to the job.
The problem is very likely to be that the Stabiliser is doing it's job too well. Try a smaller one.
That should decrease the speed induced lift, but at 75kilos, the front Foil seems too big.
Forget /remove any shims, as they don't cure the problem, only mask it.
