Got myself a Gong Diamond Hipe to travel and upon trying it for the first time with an Armstrong foil 1080v2, 70m fuse despite placing the mast all the way forward in the tracks I felt too little front foot pressure while on foil. Because the straps are fixed there is little else one can do. I saw that Gong sell a 1.5deg baseplate shim.
Anybody else with that combo? Will that shim increase front foot pressure while flying?
Thanks again
I will never understand why the manufacturers place the foil boxes with the sliding-in openings in the front part.
From your pictures it is clearly visible that you are loosing around 5cm of possible movement to the front. If the openings were in the back there would be a fair chance that you could place your foil correctly.
Some manufaturers like Slingshot, JP Australia are overthinking this already and place the openings towards the back.
I never saw anybody needing the place in the back of their foil tracks but many needing a bit more place towards the front.
I am heavy and use Armstrong foils, so I need this extra place to the front.
I will not buy boards with openings in the front any more in future, as long as the box is not placed very far forward - close to the middle.
to your question:
It will help a little bit for getting going as you place the foil hydrodynamically more efficient but will not help your issue with too little front foot pressure, because the balance point/center of gravity will remain unchanged
common problem with Armie stuff, the mastrack is too far back.you could shim the tail BUT you need turn the shim arround that u get more lift.
Didn't realize there were no options for moving straps...I was super close to ordering one of those boards for travel because I like the dimensions best among the models available...but went with the Freely because I don't ride with straps and the Freely is definitely lighter (and no bumps from the insert patches)
Thanks for the heads up on the compatibility, I have exactly the same problem with a 2022 Duotone inflatable wing board. I ride strapless and am standing on the footstrap rear bumps with Armstrong HS foils. Works OK otherwise.
Almost bought the board you have now hoping it would be better, glad I didn't.
For sure one of the strapless inflatable boards from Duotone or Gong might be the answer and just put your feet where you want.
I don't think the board shape is critical for inflatables, the Duotone inflatable DW board is strap free and looks OK.
Select to expand quoteFarNorthSurfer said..
Thanks for the heads up on the compatibility, I have exactly the same problem with a 2022 Duotone inflatable wing board. I ride strapless and am standing on the footstrap rear bumps with Armstrong HS foils. Works OK otherwise.
Almost bought the board you have now hoping it would be better, glad I didn't.
For sure one of the strapless inflatable boards from Duotone or Gong might be the answer and just put your feet where you want.
I don't think the board shape is critical for inflatables, the Duotone inflatable DW board is strap free and looks OK.
the North inflatable used to work great with Armstrong both with MA and HAv2. But the shape is that short and wide one which is so 2021 ;)
The gong boards keep having the same issue over and over again. Overall good idea, but executed very poorly.
I will give it a try with the 1.5deg rake to see if the situation improves otherwise the board will go on sale soon
Select to expand quoteSlowlyButSurely said..FarNorthSurfer said..
Thanks for the heads up on the compatibility, I have exactly the same problem with a 2022 Duotone inflatable wing board. I ride strapless and am standing on the footstrap rear bumps with Armstrong HS foils. Works OK otherwise.
Almost bought the board you have now hoping it would be better, glad I didn't.
For sure one of the strapless inflatable boards from Duotone or Gong might be the answer and just put your feet where you want.
I don't think the board shape is critical for inflatables, the Duotone inflatable DW board is strap free and looks OK.
the North inflatable used to work great with Armstrong both with MA and HAv2. But the shape is that short and wide one which is so 2021 ;)
The gong boards keep having the same issue over and over again. Overall good idea, but executed very poorly.
I will give it a try with the 1.5deg rake to see if the situation improves otherwise the board will go on sale soonSelect to expand quoteSlowlyButSurely said..FarNorthSurfer said..
Thanks for the heads up on the compatibility, I have exactly the same problem with a 2022 Duotone inflatable wing board. I ride strapless and am standing on the footstrap rear bumps with Armstrong HS foils. Works OK otherwise.
Almost bought the board you have now hoping it would be better, glad I didn't.
For sure one of the strapless inflatable boards from Duotone or Gong might be the answer and just put your feet where you want.
I don't think the board shape is critical for inflatables, the Duotone inflatable DW board is strap free and looks OK.
the North inflatable used to work great with Armstrong both with MA and HAv2. But the shape is that short and wide one which is so 2021 ;)
The gong boards keep having the same issue over and over again. Overall good idea, but executed very poorly.
I will give it a try with the 1.5deg rake to see if the situation improves otherwise the board will go on sale soon
The 1.5 shim will give a higher front foot position, which could be more comfortable, but I'm pretty sure it won't give any more front foot pressure.
The Armstrong mast seems more offset rearward with it's baseplate than most mast, which is good for strength but not great for some tracks. Couple that with Gong simple track system 4 hole spacing. Really can take away from some forward position. I have the same issue with my Cedrus mast. I loose about 2-3cm of forward position compared to my Gong mast.
Select to expand quoteSlowlyButSurely said..FarNorthSurfer said..
Thanks for the heads up on the compatibility, I have exactly the same problem with a 2022 Duotone inflatable wing board. I ride strapless and am standing on the footstrap rear bumps with Armstrong HS foils. Works OK otherwise.
Almost bought the board you have now hoping it would be better, glad I didn't.
For sure one of the strapless inflatable boards from Duotone or Gong might be the answer and just put your feet where you want.
I don't think the board shape is critical for inflatables, the Duotone inflatable DW board is strap free and looks OK.
the North inflatable used to work great with Armstrong both with MA and HAv2. But the shape is that short and wide one which is so 2021 ;)
The gong boards keep having the same issue over and over again. Overall good idea, but executed very poorly.
I will give it a try with the 1.5deg rake to see if the situation improves otherwise the board will go on sale soon
The North Seek looks like a good call, from what I can see in the promo videos the footstrap plugs are much lower profile than the ones on my Duotone/Fanatic. which means I could stand comfortably over a wider range. Happy without footstraps TBH.
Select to expand quoteWindbot said..
Time to upgrade to a Gong foil!
Ah ah not even if they give it to me for free.
Gong for me is the Zara of the wing foil industry. Too many products, updated too often, and rushed to the market without the necessary testing.
For inflatable boards they doing a good job though, if only they get the foil box and straps position right ;)
Select to expand quoteSlowlyButSurely said..
Too many products, updated too often, and rushed to the market without the necessary testing.
Actually, it is the opposite.
Gong nowadays has a lot of team riders, mostly in foil sports, so they actually can test a lot of gear, and since they are not artificial calendars, they can put in production as soon as they think the gear is tested enough, without waiting for an meaningless "next year" catalog.
You can see that in the domains where they have less testers (e.g. SUP), the models stays the same for many years.
But consumers are free to choose to wait to obey they preferred timing, nobody forces you to buy new gear as soon as it is announced :-)
PS: On the rails opening in the front, it was because at some points, manufacturers were wary of users not tightening enough the bolts, hitting something in the water, and the foil sliding to the rear and losing it if the openings were in the rear.
Select to expand quotecolas said..SlowlyButSurely said..
Too many products, updated too often, and rushed to the market without the necessary testing.
Actually, it is the opposite.
Gong nowadays has a lot of team riders, mostly in foil sports, so they actually can test a lot of gear, and since they are not artificial calendars, they can put in production as soon as they think the gear is tested enough, without waiting for an meaningless "next year" catalog.
You can see that in the domains where they have less testers (e.g. SUP), the models stays the same for many years.
But consumers are free to choose to wait to obey they preferred timing, nobody forces you to buy new gear as soon as it is announced :-)
PS: On the rails opening in the front, it was because at some points, manufacturers were wary of users not tightening enough the bolts, hitting something in the water, and the foil sliding to the rear and losing it if the openings were in the rear.
Hmm...not sure I agree.
Giving pros gear to race with, it's not testing.
Testing means giving gear to riders all across the globe who can ride in different conditions and in normal settings, doing normal maneuvers.
a well designed product should NOT have the need to be redesigned every 6 months.
Gong went through 3 different versions of their Cruzader board in 12 months. Thats not normal. And same applies to wings.
I consider Armstrong and Ozone, for example, at the other side of the spectrum. Their wings have been around for more than 1yr, tested heavily before release and without the need of a re-design every few months. I know that if I get one of their sails, every little details is carefully thought of and I wont get bested by another version after 6 months.
To me, that is the same as getting a jacket from Zara vs Patagonia.
I had 2 Gong inflatables and they were a nightmare to ride. Great ideas but executed very poorly probably because of lack of thorough testing before release.
Select to expand quoteSlowlyButSurely said..
Testing means giving gear to riders all across the globe who can ride in different conditions and in normal settings, doing normal maneuvers.
I agree that this would make sense - but I strongly doubt that this is how testing of new products is done. For a couple large company that I know more about, the testing is definitely done by a small group of expert/pro level riders. That has been a problem in the past in windsurfing, where their high level of skill ended up pushing almost all boards to designs that require skill levels most buyers do not have. Select to expand quoteSlowlyButSurely said..
I consider Armstrong and Ozone, for example, at the other side of the spectrum. Their wings have been around for more than 1yr, tested heavily before release and without the need of a re-design every few months.
Interesting that you mention Armstrong. Their original HA line was loved by some, but really disliked by many who tried it. The MA line was much hyped when it came out, but a short time later when the new HAs came out, stores could not sell them anymore; I've talked to shop owners who were quite unhappy about that. Only after the new HAs came out, comments about clear limitations of the MAs became more frequent.
Even brands that try to do a wider testing may rely on "brand ambassadors" or similar, who often benefit from discounts. Such testers can be hesitant to give clear negative feedback .. at least not until they are ready to switch to another brand. Perhaps if would be ideal to test multiple possible prototypes with a wide range of testers, so a picture of what is best can emerge, but I doubt this is done or even feasible.
Select to expand quoteSlowlyButSurely said..colas said..SlowlyButSurely said..
Too many products, updated too often, and rushed to the market without the necessary testing.
Actually, it is the opposite.
Gong nowadays has a lot of team riders, mostly in foil sports, so they actually can test a lot of gear, and since they are not artificial calendars, they can put in production as soon as they think the gear is tested enough, without waiting for an meaningless "next year" catalog.
You can see that in the domains where they have less testers (e.g. SUP), the models stays the same for many years.
But consumers are free to choose to wait to obey they preferred timing, nobody forces you to buy new gear as soon as it is announced :-)
PS: On the rails opening in the front, it was because at some points, manufacturers were wary of users not tightening enough the bolts, hitting something in the water, and the foil sliding to the rear and losing it if the openings were in the rear.
Hmm...not sure I agree.
Giving pros gear to race with, it's not testing.
Testing means giving gear to riders all across the globe who can ride in different conditions and in normal settings, doing normal maneuvers.
a well designed product should NOT have the need to be redesigned every 6 months.
Gong went through 3 different versions of their Cruzader board in 12 months. Thats not normal. And same applies to wings.
I consider Armstrong and Ozone, for example, at the other side of the spectrum. Their wings have been around for more than 1yr, tested heavily before release and without the need of a re-design every few months. I know that if I get one of their sails, every little details is carefully thought of and I wont get bested by another version after 6 months.
To me, that is the same as getting a jacket from Zara vs Patagonia.
I had 2 Gong inflatables and they were a nightmare to ride. Great ideas but executed very poorly probably because of lack of thorough testing before release.
Gong did a release of their first Cruz without straps, for some reason released one with straps (no idea who wants straps on their downwind boards lol) then released another nearly a year after the initial release that with slightly different dimensions. The only flaw I can find with the original is that it's a bit over-engineered with its bottom plate, making it a bit heavy, not a big deal though for wingfoilers, Overall it's a great affordable board, Takoon is really the only competitor I'm aware of in this space at a similar price point.
Select to expand quoteSlowlyButSurely said..Windbot said..
Time to upgrade to a Gong foil!
Ah ah not even if they give it to me for free.
Gong for me is the Zara of the wing foil industry. Too many products, updated too often, and rushed to the market without the necessary testing.
For inflatable boards they doing a good job though, if only they get the foil box and straps position right ;)
The best thing about Gong is their front wing selection. I can't imagine being stuck on a boutique brand with 4 foils to choose from. I have ridden tons of different Gong front wings and have never ridden a bad one, they all have a niche. While it seems complicated and confusing at first how they do their lines and sizing, it makes lots of sense when you're used to it. I love that I can go dockstart freefoiling with a foil with nearly a 2m wingspan, then when the wind picks up swap out the foil for a little HA wing less than half the size. The fact they build upgrade paths between their major version updates so old stabs can be used with new fuselage designs is very considerate, and something other manufacturers could learn from, it's a simple matter of respect for their customers, Patrice gets it.
I have an original Gong Crusader 7'6"xl hard board and use it a lot with my Armstrong HS and MA foils. Have had loads of great sessions on it surf, light wind wing and wing DW. It works well with the foils, nowhere near the front of the boxes, usually at position 10-11 on the markings. So not sure why the inflatable boards wouldn't be made to work for a similar foil range but clearly they are not which is a shame.
Also have an earlier generation Gong Zuma which works very well SUP foiling again with Armstrong and not at the front of the boxes.
I have used quite a few Gong foils and they have been good, but I prefer the Armstrong and use the MA series a lot. While I have never been critical of Gong foils I often get negative comments from Gong riders about the Armstrongs, no idea why, tribalism I guess.
There some gong foil that doesn't work even with gong board. They sent shims for the rake, apparently a rake issue.even using a gong board.with a gong foill.
after trying to figure out without sucess, he sold the front wing. It happens twice at least i'm aware of. Maybe some are correct, maybe not enough testing before releasing. Some of his wings works great and fast, it's not all bad.
There some gong foil that doesn't work even with gong board. They sent shims for the rake, apparently a rake issue.even using a gong board.with a gong foill.
after trying to figure out without sucess, he sold the front wing. It happens twice at least i'm aware of. Maybe some are correct, maybe not enough testing before releasing. Some of his foils work great and fast, it's not all bad.
Select to expand quoteSlowlyButSurely said..
Giving pros gear to race with, it's not testing.
Testing means giving gear to riders all across the globe who can ride in different conditions and in normal settings, doing normal maneuvers.
a well designed product should NOT have the need to be redesigned every 6 months.
Well, Gong riders ONLY use production gear in contests, you can check.
I know that starboard (and probably others) have the same policy.
Testing is done extensively outside of contests. And not only by pro riders.
A production product is NEVER an ultimate, "ideal" choice. It is a compromise between many factors, notably the level and expectations of the average customer, which CAN vary every 6 months in rapidly evolving sports. What was "normal" 6 months ago is not the same as today. And each brand will have its own idea of the best compromise at a given time, and thus some brands may better fit you personnally, just like for clothes, wetsuits, shoes...
And this compromise thus changes. Also, take into account that there can be a gap between what people say they want, and what they actually need or use or buy. And manufacturers need some time to detect the actual needs of a silent majority rather than the voiced ones of the early adopters niche.
Look on how the "Downwind" foil boards have changed dramatically the average rider needs... and are still changing them as more and more people discover them.
Note also that design of boards or foil or sails can change because of changes in other parts of the gear (board, sail, foil). Old timers will recall how mastfoot and straps positions changed radically with the RAF revolution in Windsurfing sails.
Again, nobody forces you to buy gear every 6 months. Just because new gear is out does NOT means your current gear suddenly lost all its qualities. Just buy when you need, knowing you will only have a gear that is max 6 months "obsolete" rather than one year. No need to wait for artificial deadlines.
After various attempts to find the right setting, I think the negative shim on the stabilizer fixed the issue and made the board comfort and balance much better.
I had 3d printed two -1deg shims and tried using only one and both (for -2deg total) and I think -1deg is more than fine.
The board now rides normal.
hence people who want to ride the Gong inflatable for travel should be reassured that it works also with Armstrong foil once you get the proper shimming on the tail.
And actually this Gong Diamond Hipe midlenght is quite a nice board to ride.
For reference my go-to board is the Armstrong Midlength 85L and Wing FG 80L.
I wanted to get a long+narrow inflatable and Gong is the only one making them.
After a bit of work finding the right set up I feel comfortable recommending it. The narrow shape definitely makes touch-down and rail contacts much easier to handle while maneuvering than other inflatables (I had the North Seek Air before).
It is NOWHERE close to a rigid board and I'd discount heavily whatever is said about their performance in light wind and powered condition. They start 2-3kt later than a rigid board, the transmission of input (pumping, turning etc) its delayed and touch downs are sticky.
But for traveling they can offer an easy solution.
Select to expand quoteSlowlyButSurely said..
It is NOWHERE close to a rigid board and I'd discount heavily whatever is said about their performance in light wind and powered condition. They start 2-3kt later than a rigid board, the transmission of input (pumping, turning etc) its delayed and touch downs are sticky.
But for traveling they can offer an easy solution.
So...still an inflatable...
I just got the 5' 90L Freely for travel but haven't ridden it yet...they send a ton of crap with it I won't be traveling with, including that bag (nice thought, but...) and all those nuts and M6 bolts and washers (but I will be using shorter M8 bolts so they won't stick out the back of the t-nuts when tightened up, which seems to be what they are after with their closed back nuts)...
I've had my negative thoughts about Gong foils, but that was related entirely to some very light construction.
Their designs are excellent and when it's possible to improve they do without leaving existing users in the dark.
They just recently changed to a far better wing attachment, but have complete backwards compatibility with existing masts.
I'll be buying more from them but not any inflatables, the only ones I see doing those well are Starboard.
