Long Story for background
In early 2021 as I was learning to foil, primarily prone in the surf, I had a fall where I remember hitting the water with a fair impact, I was wearing a Gath helmet at the time however I remember the feeling of how hitting the water at speed from height was different to falling off a surfboard. I dusted myself off and didn't think much of it. A few weeks later I fell out of one of my mango trees when I was pruning it, again a fall of over a metre, I didn't hit my head, but I do recall the sudden stop when I hit the ground. Shortly afterwards I started experiencing a long, protracted headache that lasted more than week and Im the sort of person that never gets a headache or if I do its done and dusted in a few hours with a dose of panadol. Cut to the chase I was eventually diagnosed with a carotid artery dissection, which is where a pseudoanneurysm partially blocks the carotid artery and was most likely caused due to the "fall traumas" I had experienced. Treatment was aspirin to keep the blood thin and avoid clotting and no "dangerous activities" such as foiling or riding dirtbikes....after scans over the ensuing 12 months I was given the all clear and have completely immersed myself into foiling, primarily winging. I always wear an impact vest and a helmet, however I ditched the hard plastic Gath as I felt it actually increased the load on my head and neck as it tends to catch the leading edges and fill with water when taking a dive. I wear a DMS Soft Surf helmet (rugby style) as this fits snugly, keeps me warm in cooler weather and has so far taken a few hits from the board and foil without injury to my head.
Now to the point of this story: a couple of sessions ago I had 2 falls where I hit the water pretty hard, one from an unexpected breach where I was pitched forwards and the other where I fell off during a gybe and landed on my back. In both instances I noticed that my neck took a bit of a stress load and the thought crossed my mind of suffering another carotid dissection due to the impact trauma.
Coming from a dirt bike riding background I saw that the neck brace debate was very divided, with some saying it prevented serious injuries and others saying it actually contributed to more serious injury. As a rider I never wore a neck brace, however I did have the latest helmets with "internal omnidirectional suspension" which helped absorb impacts by allowing the head to have some deacceleration movement within the helmet.
My experiences to date with my head hitting the water wearing a soft helmet have been encouraging, however I am concerned about the loads on my neck.
When I know an impact is coming, is it better to try and tense up to keep the neck aligned or is there a technique that would provide the best outcome, such as a hands on head tuck/body roll to try and absorb the energy?
Does anyone have any experience with neck support or braces specifically applicable to water sports?
I have always worried about the extra momentum from helmet weight in catapults when windsurfing. I do wear a helmet foiling, and tend to crash a lot, but never had any crashes with similar impact. But then, I'm going a lot slower on the foil. Some foil racers like Michele Becker, who foil at twice + my speed and with longer masts, use neck braces routinely.
One thing you can do that should help is exercises specifically for the neck, like lying on your back and lifting the head up. A long time ago when doing judo, those were part of every warmup so you'd last longer if someone got you in a choke hold, and I still do them, especially when expecting speed sessions.
I had to make a neck brace for my son who has a very rare condition (Hiriyama Disease). I made it out of 1inch closed cell moderate stiffness Eva foam.. Stiff enough to provide some support, but not too stiff which would lead to other problems in a crash.
Hey there, I recently injured my neck C3 through C5 in a contusion on my spinal cord. Had to have surgery. Thankfully I'm making strong recovery. I'm hoping to be back Wing foiling in a couple months. I'm looking for some type of neck brace that I could use wing foiling. Anyone have any ideas or recommendations? Thanks
Sounds like you all suffer from TMS : Tension Myositis Syndrome.Factors like anxiety, stress and our tendency to react to pain with fear and trepidation may induce physiological changes in our nervous system, leading to the experience of a variety of symptoms that are not due to structural or tissue damage. Yes your symptoms may be very real, and yes "they" see something on a scan like a herniated disc or a pinched nerve....
Had neck pain for 2 years and scans showed some wear and tear. Dr Sarno calls it : the grey hairs of the spine. A herniated disc does not cause pain, period.
I would all encourage to read this book and understand where pain comes from. I've been studying this for 2 years now, and btw, my neck problems are gone. And believe me, my pain was very real .
www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Reissue-Connection/dp/153871261X/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=107399564388&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.SvMVz4Ku04CekhqOG7t6Hn0PouVaANGe0Tkdt_ywS4d5dWLt6sIoNygvbFDgLOt8bbA8zDdiDKR3J5w_9MdTz6bk9tTb6D6nMpjNNL4jUE5Q2Sjhv9c67dxVKuqUe74Vsgx3J4MOu_eVoYm2A-EDFeb-24TYfoFQBsKCQ7UpW-y5JUur-YTk79thmKAOZZGjIaCAg7dDnWl_o_L_-VfW3JPKbZ3xBDcTho2Rr6qvNBxufm_2koMdlzHaJRUv7c8fvEdhE0J_1BJWI8s9NHmV3uUrgw38aPeRggH_sL4vjes.Vc9O7pzYuZqxyHMnOeUhCyk0iTeChSaVQz3ffe0-Aoc&dib_tag=se&hvadid=424603386404&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9103624&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=11724310412617788029&hvtargid=kwd-98922620&hydadcr=2980_2011668&keywords=healing+back+pain&qid=1729094687&sr=8-1
See the reviews for yourself.
Select to expand quotelarsdegroot said..
Sounds like you all suffer from TMS : Tension Myositis Syndrome.Factors like anxiety, stress and our tendency to react to pain with fear and trepidation may induce physiological changes in our nervous system, leading to the experience of a variety of symptoms that are not due to structural or tissue damage. Yes your symptoms may be very real, and yes "they" see something on a scan like a herniated disc or a pinched nerve....
Had neck pain for 2 years and scans showed some wear and tear. Dr Sarno calls it : the grey hairs of the spine. A herniated disc does not cause pain, period.
Sorry to say but this is not a good advice. While there may be other reasons for back pain than a herniated disc, these can be the reason for back pain and other symptoms such as paralysis.
It is quite possible that this method helps in some cases, but certainly not in all. Personally, I find Stuart McGill's work particularly helpful.
That said, preventive neck protection seems to make more sense to me in fun sports than pain management.
If there is nothing broken, don't try to fix the body. It will work counterproductive. Offcourse you must first rule out there is no serious illness. Also, this is not pain management. Pain management means that you have to live and deal with pain. This is to get rid of the pain. Worry and fear fuel pain.
if your physician does not consider TMS in the process of generating a differential diagnosis of your symptoms, it is possible that he or she will give an incorrect diagnosis. This occurs all too frequently as a physical cause is mistakenly offered. This results in a treatment plan that is often unsuccessful. As an example, many people with back pain / neck pain are told that their symptoms are due to a herniated disc or disc degeneration, when in fact these findings are often incidental and normal. This helps to explain why physical therapy, medications and surgery are often unsuccessful.
Select to expand quotelarsdegroot said..
Sounds like you all suffer from TMS : Tension Myositis Syndrome.Factors like anxiety, stress and our tendency to react to pain with fear and trepidation may induce physiological changes in our nervous system, leading to the experience of a variety of symptoms that are not due to structural or tissue damage. Yes your symptoms may be very real, and yes "they" see something on a scan like a herniated disc or a pinched nerve....
Had neck pain for 2 years and scans showed some wear and tear. Dr Sarno calls it : the grey hairs of the spine. A herniated disc does not cause pain, period.
I would all encourage to read this book and understand where pain comes from. I've been studying this for 2 years now, and btw, my neck problems are gone. And believe me, my pain was very real .
www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Reissue-Connection/dp/153871261X/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=107399564388&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.SvMVz4Ku04CekhqOG7t6Hn0PouVaANGe0Tkdt_ywS4d5dWLt6sIoNygvbFDgLOt8bbA8zDdiDKR3J5w_9MdTz6bk9tTb6D6nMpjNNL4jUE5Q2Sjhv9c67dxVKuqUe74Vsgx3J4MOu_eVoYm2A-EDFeb-24TYfoFQBsKCQ7UpW-y5JUur-YTk79thmKAOZZGjIaCAg7dDnWl_o_L_-VfW3JPKbZ3xBDcTho2Rr6qvNBxufm_2koMdlzHaJRUv7c8fvEdhE0J_1BJWI8s9NHmV3uUrgw38aPeRggH_sL4vjes.Vc9O7pzYuZqxyHMnOeUhCyk0iTeChSaVQz3ffe0-Aoc&dib_tag=se&hvadid=424603386404&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9103624&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=11724310412617788029&hvtargid=kwd-98922620&hydadcr=2980_2011668&keywords=healing+back+pain&qid=1729094687&sr=8-1
See the reviews for yourself.
I must admit that I was (and to some extend still am) skeptical. But reading the reviews, as you suggest, is indeed very interesting. The idea behind TMS is that one of the biggest and most important organs in your body (the brain) basically attacks other organs. That sounds a tad crazy on first thought. But no MD in the world would question that this is indeed often the cause of major illness when we look and another "organ" that's about as important as the brain: the immune system.
In completely unrelated chronic pain research, it is very well established that chronic pain is self-reinforcing. In patients with chronic pain, scans show that the pain center expands, and can take over parts of the visual cortex. One treatment for chronic pain is based on visualization of positive things, specifically to counteract this pain expansion / self reinforcement.
My wife has just gone through the medical standards in attempts to heal shoulder pain that originated from a few specific wing sessions. Her experience mirrors what many of the reviews state - lots of trial and error, and no success with PT etc. Fortunately, though, the MRI diagnosis clearly showed that there is no significant actual damage, just regular "grey hairs on the shoulder joint", to borrow that expression. It will be interesting if assuming TMS, and following whatever suggestions Dr. Sarno et al. give to cure it, will make a difference. In the reviews, some reported very dramatic improvements, while others loved the theory, but did not get any large improvements.
That said, I'd still be a cautious when it comes to actual neck injuries. Some of the race foilers seem to think they are a good idea. I usually wing at rather low speeds (below 20 knots) and never felt the need for a neck brace myself; but I have had much harder crashes when windfoiling and windsurfing where I thought that a neck brace would have been a darn good idea.
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..larsdegroot said..
Sounds like you all suffer from TMS : Tension Myositis Syndrome.Factors like anxiety, stress and our tendency to react to pain with fear and trepidation may induce physiological changes in our nervous system, leading to the experience of a variety of symptoms that are not due to structural or tissue damage. Yes your symptoms may be very real, and yes "they" see something on a scan like a herniated disc or a pinched nerve....
Had neck pain for 2 years and scans showed some wear and tear. Dr Sarno calls it : the grey hairs of the spine. A herniated disc does not cause pain, period.
I would all encourage to read this book and understand where pain comes from. I've been studying this for 2 years now, and btw, my neck problems are gone. And believe me, my pain was very real .
www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Reissue-Connection/dp/153871261X/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=107399564388&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.SvMVz4Ku04CekhqOG7t6Hn0PouVaANGe0Tkdt_ywS4d5dWLt6sIoNygvbFDgLOt8bbA8zDdiDKR3J5w_9MdTz6bk9tTb6D6nMpjNNL4jUE5Q2Sjhv9c67dxVKuqUe74Vsgx3J4MOu_eVoYm2A-EDFeb-24TYfoFQBsKCQ7UpW-y5JUur-YTk79thmKAOZZGjIaCAg7dDnWl_o_L_-VfW3JPKbZ3xBDcTho2Rr6qvNBxufm_2koMdlzHaJRUv7c8fvEdhE0J_1BJWI8s9NHmV3uUrgw38aPeRggH_sL4vjes.Vc9O7pzYuZqxyHMnOeUhCyk0iTeChSaVQz3ffe0-Aoc&dib_tag=se&hvadid=424603386404&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9103624&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=11724310412617788029&hvtargid=kwd-98922620&hydadcr=2980_2011668&keywords=healing+back+pain&qid=1729094687&sr=8-1
See the reviews for yourself.
I must admit that I was (and to some extend still am) skeptical. But reading the reviews, as you suggest, is indeed very interesting. The idea behind TMS is that one of the biggest and most important organs in your body (the brain) basically attacks other organs. That sounds a tad crazy on first thought. But no MD in the world would question that this is indeed often the cause of major illness when we look and another "organ" that's about as important as the brain: the immune system.
In completely unrelated chronic pain research, it is very well established that chronic pain is self-reinforcing. In patients with chronic pain, scans show that the pain center expands, and can take over parts of the visual cortex. One treatment for chronic pain is based on visualization of positive things, specifically to counteract this pain expansion / self reinforcement.
My wife has just gone through the medical standards in attempts to heal shoulder pain that originated from a few specific wing sessions. Her experience mirrors what many of the reviews state - lots of trial and error, and no success with PT etc. Fortunately, though, the MRI diagnosis clearly showed that there is no significant actual damage, just regular "grey hairs on the shoulder joint", to borrow that expression. It will be interesting if assuming TMS, and following whatever suggestions Dr. Sarno et al. give to cure it, will make a difference. In the reviews, some reported very dramatic improvements, while others loved the theory, but did not get any large improvements.
That said, I'd still be a cautious when it comes to actual neck injuries. Some of the race foilers seem to think they are a good idea. I usually wing at rather low speeds (below 20 knots) and never felt the need for a neck brace myself; but I have had much harder crashes when windfoiling and windsurfing where I thought that a neck brace would have been a darn good idea.
The traditional medical training seeks to explain most symptoms as having a physical cause. While this may be true in some cases, it does not explain much of the pain and discomfort that we all experience. Most physicians do not consider the possibility of a psychological cause for the pain. As a result, they will prescribe medication, special exercises, physical therapy, injections or even surgery to address what they believe is a physical problem. When this is not successful, people seek alternative remedies, such as chiropractic, craniosacral therapy, prolotherapy, etc. in an effort to relieve their discomfort with varying levels of results. What does work is Dr. Sarno's approach--the acquisition of knowledge. Put aside the notion that there is a physical problem, accept that there is a psychological cause and understand how and why the brain does this. I recommend your wife to read the book Healing back pain, and dive in the TMS material/books. The Great Pain Deception, Faulty Medical Advice Is Making Us Worse, is a masterpiece and really helped me.
Once i stopped everything that focused on the body, like physical therapy, chiropractors ect.. that's when i got better. And offcourse with the knowledge out of the books.
Select to expand quotelarsdegroot said..
Once i stopped everything that focused on the body, like physical therapy, chiropractors ect.. that's when i got better. And offcourse with the knowledge out of the books.
Everybodys healing process is different. Similar symptoms may have different root cause. My healing process was totally different from yours. 100% physical approach (Stuart McGill + McKenzie).
But good to hear that you found your way out of the problems :-) Back pain and injuries can really limit the fun on the water!
