Hi
i am in the middle of installing a holding tank for my head. The output goes directly to the holding tank which then can be pumped out to the seacock when out to sea, or sucked out at a marina. It seems like a good idea to hold onto my waste rather than pumping it out wherever one does their business, on anchor...on a mooring etc. While a holding tank is not mandatory, it seems like a better way for those in the water around the boat, not swimming in their own effluent.
What do others think? Are the use of holding tanks a good idea for the environment, as it redistributes the waste over a larger area (if one pumps it out while sailing)??
Cheers Lukas
Capricorn Dancer (Mottle 33) Greenwell Point NSW
Holding tanks are compulsory in QLD, and I'd be surprised if they weren't also in NSW. OK, maybe the holding tank isn't compulsory, but it is illegal to discharge waste in harbour or in most anchorages.
The KISS system is simplest if you can mount the tank completely above the waterline. If you have an electric toilet, you don't need a macerator or any extra pumps.
www.sailmiami.com/SM_Articles/KISS%20MSD.htm#diagram
If you appreciate the qualities of some of the places we can visit, and would like them to remain pristine, then of course it's a good idea not to spread crap there every time you stay.
Select to expand quoteQLDCruiser said..
Holding tanks are compulsory in QLD, and I'd be surprised if they weren't also in NSW. OK, maybe the holding tank isn't compulsory, but it is illegal to discharge waste in harbour or in most anchorages.
The KISS system is simplest if you can mount the tank completely above the waterline. If you have an electric toilet, you don't need a macerator or any extra pumps.
www.sailmiami.com/SM_Articles/KISS%20MSD.htm#diagram
If you appreciate the qualities of some of the places we can visit, and would like them to remain pristine, then of course it's a good idea not to spread crap there every time you stay.
Hi
I have a pumpout tank, not gravity bleed so the tank can be low down in the hull, bit of a hassle to pump out but there you go.
At the moment I have a macerator only set up and I want to improve on that but keen to avoid a holding tank if possible for space and other considerations. One alternative option I have been looking at is this kind of thing - sani-loo.com.au/ . Not cheap but meets the treatment specifications required for discharge in many areas and also has a small treatment tank (from memory 12 litres or something) that might be enough to get through an overnight stop in a marina or other non discharge area. Anyone out there had any experience with these?
That's a small holding tank, but with an added dosing system that adds chlorine to disinfect the waste. Instead of "Untreated sewage", you're now dealing with "Grade C treated sewage".
In my opinion the added benefit (above an untreated system) is marginal. It depends where you are, but in the areas I've had experience with, a Saniloo would not give you any significant advantage in terms of where you are permitted to discharge. In 95% of cases, make sure you're at least 1nm from land, and not in a sensitive area like a green zone or oyster lease, and you're good to go, saniloo or not. See here for Qld regs and maps:
www.msq.qld.gov.au/Marine-pollution/Sewage/Vessel-sewage-discharge-restriction-maps#exmenu
Two further points. 1, Even with a Saniloo, the regs say you need a macerator or electric toilet. No-one wants to see brown lumps and toilet paper floating past, even if they have been sterilised. And 2, don't believe the hype that a Saniloo is a sewage treatment plant. All it does is kill bacteria. It does nothing about removing nutrients (nitrogen and phosphorus) which are the major cause of eutrophication and environmental degradation in waterways.
Thanks QLDCruiser. The macerator is not a problem, I have one of those already and the Saniloo system doesn't work without one anyway. I had looked at those regs before but the two different maps for treated and untreated are a bit confusing, after looking harder as you point out the only advantage in open waters seems to be a slightly smaller prohibited area around wharves and other sensitive areas. The main advantage seems to be in 'smooth waters'.
The ability to hold a small amount of waste for later discharge would still be good though.
And yeah I get the difference between the bacteria and nutrients, the disinfection is still a plus but avoiding any environmental degradation is obviously important too. That said I have heard many different opinions from marine biologists and others about how big an issue the nutrients are and probably don't know enough to have a strong opinion one way or the other on that myself. Seems to be a bit of a can of worms in some quarters!
In a discussion with a former yachtie biologist his view was that we are fresh water animals as is our bacteria. Within a short time of our waste mixing with salt water the bacteria dies. His advice was there is no health threat from discharging into the ocean.
However, there is the visual aesthetic impact and like most I don't like such sights and don't want to swim with it.
I have a macerator but no holding tank. I don't use the heads in areas where people are swimming etc. If someone really needs to go when I was moored near others I would move to an open area.
While snorkelling at Lord Howe with my wife a couple of weeks ago a big fish and a galapagos shark took a dump. Made a human dump look like a minor problem.
Select to expand quotemottle33 said..
Hi
i am in the middle of installing a holding tank for my head. The output goes directly to the holding tank which then can be pumped out to the seacock when out to sea, or sucked out at a marina. It seems like a good idea to hold onto my waste rather than pumping it out wherever one does their business, on anchor...on a mooring etc. While a holding tank is not mandatory, it seems like a better way for those in the water around the boat, not swimming in their own effluent.
What do others think? Are the use of holding tanks a good idea for the environment, as it redistributes the waste over a larger area (if one pumps it out while sailing)??
Cheers Lukas
Capricorn Dancer (Mottle 33) Greenwell Point NSW
You don't need a holding tank Lukas. Basically here if you have a boat with heads installed and your tied up to the main wharf and use the heads you have to have a holding tank. If your 100 meters off the wharf it's open slather! The tank for discharging your holding tank is at Nowra which you can't get too in your vessel anyway. If you could you would not have the correct connection either!. It's legal to dump your waste at sea though from your holding tank. Not sure what the legal distance is but I think it's 2 miles. I think a macerator is all that's required.
Select to expand quotemottle33 said..
Hi
i am in the middle of installing a holding tank for my head. The output goes directly to the holding tank which then can be pumped out to the seacock when out to sea, or sucked out at a marina. It seems like a good idea to hold onto my waste rather than pumping it out wherever one does their business, on anchor...on a mooring etc. While a holding tank is not mandatory, it seems like a better way for those in the water around the boat, not swimming in their own effluent.
What do others think? Are the use of holding tanks a good idea for the environment, as it redistributes the waste over a larger area (if one pumps it out while sailing)??
Cheers Lukas
Capricorn Dancer (Mottle 33) Greenwell Point NSW
We use a porta potty when inshore, dump points can be found in a suprising amount of places owing to the fleet of motor homes that convoy around our coast line, public pump out facility's have a trap door that can be used and there's always public toilets (it's not the sort of thing you want to take home with you) and of coarse when your 2 miles out over the side it goes. The smell is easily controlled by using sodium percarbonate ie nappy San. ( the cheaper the better) If your cruising with a larger crew a tank is probably the way to go
Select to expand quoteRamona said..mottle33 said..
Hi
i am in the middle of installing a holding tank for my head. The output goes directly to the holding tank which then can be pumped out to the seacock when out to sea, or sucked out at a marina. It seems like a good idea to hold onto my waste rather than pumping it out wherever one does their business, on anchor...on a mooring etc. While a holding tank is not mandatory, it seems like a better way for those in the water around the boat, not swimming in their own effluent.
What do others think? Are the use of holding tanks a good idea for the environment, as it redistributes the waste over a larger area (if one pumps it out while sailing)??
Cheers Lukas
Capricorn Dancer (Mottle 33) Greenwell Point NSW
You don't need a holding tank Lukas. Basically here if you have a boat with heads installed and your tied up to the main wharf and use the heads you have to have a holding tank. If your 100 meters off the wharf it's open slather! The tank for discharging your holding tank is at Nowra which you can't get too in your vessel anyway. If you could you would not have the correct connection either!. It's legal to dump your waste at sea though from your holding tank. Not sure what the legal distance is but I think it's 2 miles. I think a macerator is all that's required.
Hi Ramona
Where you say "You don't need a holding tank" are you referring to your local area or to a ruling you've seen. I must admit I've been toing & froing on the whole holding tank thing for a while now.
The RMS website is very obtuse in it's information.
First it says there are no SPECIFIC regulations but then later it says it's an offense to pollute the waterways. I wish they'd just come out and give a ruling
Confused...
Here's the regs for NSW. Still a bit confusing about navigable waters and state waters. Is it 4nm from Sydney Harbour?
www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/regulations/2014-529.pdf
Are state waters up to 3nm from shore? Does that mean no untreated discharge anywhere in NSW within 3nm?
www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/marine/jurisdiction/maritime-boundary-definitions
WA regs much easier to comprehend, though I think 500m from shore is not far enough for untreated discharge.
www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/marine/MAC-IS-SewageStrategy.pdf
There is some info here on NSW - looks like generally no untreated discharge allowed.
www.rms.nsw.gov.au/about/environment/frequently-asked-questions.html
Would a 25 litre or so plastic container as a holding tank and a Y diversion valve be feasible or just too small even for one person? My Lavac toilet supposedly uses 1.7 litres per flush. I like the ability to dispose my waste in a normal toilet like a porta potti and not have to rip out the existing toilet.
I have posted previously on here about gravity dump holding tanks fitted same system in the past cruising yachts I have owned although I cooped some negitivivity from a fellow post on this site . But 2.5 years on its still going strong. Calcium and paper in toilets and holding tanks can be killer. I have a back wash system on my latest instalment and looking into toliet paper being put into brown paper bags!
Well this is a timely thread. I really need some help with figuring out the most economical/effective way to install a toilet in my catamaran. I bought it two months ago and my wife took one look at the porta potty that came with the vessel and said "no way we are leaving the mooring with that!"
And personally I would never flush raw sewerage into places where people are going to use it for recreation etc... thats just not cool. C'mon lets get classy people.
So am I right in saying the thru-hull fittings should only be done by a pro at the slipway? And all I can really do to reduce the cost of installation is to aquire the hardware, install the bowl and holding tank? Then let the pros do the rest?
Select to expand quoteJethrow said..Ramona said..mottle33 said..
Hi
i am in the middle of installing a holding tank for my head. The output goes directly to the holding tank which then can be pumped out to the seacock when out to sea, or sucked out at a marina. It seems like a good idea to hold onto my waste rather than pumping it out wherever one does their business, on anchor...on a mooring etc. While a holding tank is not mandatory, it seems like a better way for those in the water around the boat, not swimming in their own effluent.
What do others think? Are the use of holding tanks a good idea for the environment, as it redistributes the waste over a larger area (if one pumps it out while sailing)??
Cheers Lukas
Capricorn Dancer (Mottle 33) Greenwell Point NSW
You don't need a holding tank Lukas. Basically here if you have a boat with heads installed and your tied up to the main wharf and use the heads you have to have a holding tank. If your 100 meters off the wharf it's open slather! The tank for discharging your holding tank is at Nowra which you can't get too in your vessel anyway. If you could you would not have the correct connection either!. It's legal to dump your waste at sea though from your holding tank. Not sure what the legal distance is but I think it's 2 miles. I think a macerator is all that's required.
Hi Ramona
Where you say "You don't need a holding tank" are you referring to your local area or to a ruling you've seen. I must admit I've been toing & froing on the whole holding tank thing for a while now.
The RMS website is very obtuse in it's information.
First it says there are no SPECIFIC regulations but then later it says it's an offense to pollute the waterways. I wish they'd just come out and give a ruling
Confused...
I'd argue that putting human fecal matter in the small quantities coming from yachts isn't pollution in a marine environment. As MorningBird points out, bacteria in poo live in a fresh water environment (ie humans) and won't survive in a marine environment. Happy to be corrected if wrong on this but difficult to conclude otherwise.
The previous owner of my boat had put in a jerry built holding tank arrangement. It was a shocker, stank, leaked everywhere. First job (no pun intended) I did on the boat was pull the thing out.
Select to expand quoteclaverton said..Jethrow said..Ramona said..mottle33 said..
Hi
i am in the middle of installing a holding tank for my head. The output goes directly to the holding tank which then can be pumped out to the seacock when out to sea, or sucked out at a marina. It seems like a good idea to hold onto my waste rather than pumping it out wherever one does their business, on anchor...on a mooring etc. While a holding tank is not mandatory, it seems like a better way for those in the water around the boat, not swimming in their own effluent.
What do others think? Are the use of holding tanks a good idea for the environment, as it redistributes the waste over a larger area (if one pumps it out while sailing)??
Cheers Lukas
Capricorn Dancer (Mottle 33) Greenwell Point NSW
You don't need a holding tank Lukas. Basically here if you have a boat with heads installed and your tied up to the main wharf and use the heads you have to have a holding tank. If your 100 meters off the wharf it's open slather! The tank for discharging your holding tank is at Nowra which you can't get too in your vessel anyway. If you could you would not have the correct connection either!. It's legal to dump your waste at sea though from your holding tank. Not sure what the legal distance is but I think it's 2 miles. I think a macerator is all that's required.
Hi Ramona
Where you say "You don't need a holding tank" are you referring to your local area or to a ruling you've seen. I must admit I've been toing & froing on the whole holding tank thing for a while now.
The RMS website is very obtuse in it's information.
First it says there are no SPECIFIC regulations but then later it says it's an offense to pollute the waterways. I wish they'd just come out and give a ruling
Confused...
I'd argue that putting human fecal matter in the small quantities coming from yachts isn't pollution in a marine environment. As MorningBird points out, bacteria in poo live in a fresh water environment (ie humans) and won't survive in a marine environment. Happy to be corrected if wrong on this but difficult to conclude otherwise.
The previous owner of my boat had put in a jerry built holding tank arrangement. It was a shocker, stank, leaked everywhere. First job (no pun intended) I did on the boat was pull the thing out.
doing some googling and it turns out there are some human pathogens that can survive marine environment. For example Staphylococcus aureus (Golden Staph) can survive up to 6.5% salt (sea water is 3.5% salt). That may explain why oyster farms etc are vulnerable to sewage.
Select to expand quoteclaverton said..Jethrow said..Ramona said..mottle33 said..
Hi
i am in the middle of installing a holding tank for my head. The output goes directly to the holding tank which then can be pumped out to the seacock when out to sea, or sucked out at a marina. It seems like a good idea to hold onto my waste rather than pumping it out wherever one does their business, on anchor...on a mooring etc. While a holding tank is not mandatory, it seems like a better way for those in the water around the boat, not swimming in their own effluent.
What do others think? Are the use of holding tanks a good idea for the environment, as it redistributes the waste over a larger area (if one pumps it out while sailing)??
Cheers Lukas
Capricorn Dancer (Mottle 33) Greenwell Point NSW
You don't need a holding tank Lukas. Basically here if you have a boat with heads installed and your tied up to the main wharf and use the heads you have to have a holding tank. If your 100 meters off the wharf it's open slather! The tank for discharging your holding tank is at Nowra which you can't get too in your vessel anyway. If you could you would not have the correct connection either!. It's legal to dump your waste at sea though from your holding tank. Not sure what the legal distance is but I think it's 2 miles. I think a macerator is all that's required.
Hi Ramona
Where you say "You don't need a holding tank" are you referring to your local area or to a ruling you've seen. I must admit I've been toing & froing on the whole holding tank thing for a while now.
The RMS website is very obtuse in it's information.
First it says there are no SPECIFIC regulations but then later it says it's an offense to pollute the waterways. I wish they'd just come out and give a ruling
Confused...
I'd argue that putting human fecal matter in the small quantities coming from yachts isn't pollution in a marine environment. As MorningBird points out, bacteria in poo live in a fresh water environment (ie humans) and won't survive in a marine environment. Happy to be corrected if wrong on this but difficult to conclude otherwise.
The previous owner of my boat had put in a jerry built holding tank arrangement. It was a shocker, stank, leaked everywhere. First job (no pun intended) I did on the boat was pull the thing out.
So where do you put it Now?
This 10 year old series of articles by Alan Lucas seems to be all about Queensland and may not be representive of the current level of enforcement, but are still worth reading.
www.thecoastalpassage.com/poo.html
Beside the argument of it's pathology, l believe the holding tank solution - a properly built and maintained one - is a good one. My yacht was built with an inbuilt waste tank and it can be pumped out with it's own pump or sucked out.
I am a cynic, l don't believe a legislation is going to hold someone back from defecating.
At least the holding tank encourages using ones boat. 
When the tank is getting full one must go sailing outside the heads and there, far far away, to pump it out, because in NSW pumping out stations are few and far between, and they are standardised for one valve fitting only! 
In Qld. they are much more updated in this regard with their little pump out trolleys with a simple sucking hose! No fitted connector-valves!
As long as nature is not regulated, animal toilets built for fishes, birds etc. I am not fussed as long as it is done sensibly. Once we have to go, we have to go and any legislation is only as good as the paper been printed on is good for wiping afterwards.
Select to expand quoteJethrow said..Ramona said..mottle33 said..
Hi
i am in the middle of installing a holding tank for my head. The output goes directly to the holding tank which then can be pumped out to the seacock when out to sea, or sucked out at a marina. It seems like a good idea to hold onto my waste rather than pumping it out wherever one does their business, on anchor...on a mooring etc. While a holding tank is not mandatory, it seems like a better way for those in the water around the boat, not swimming in their own effluent.
What do others think? Are the use of holding tanks a good idea for the environment, as it redistributes the waste over a larger area (if one pumps it out while sailing)??
Cheers Lukas
Capricorn Dancer (Mottle 33) Greenwell Point NSW
You don't need a holding tank Lukas. Basically here if you have a boat with heads installed and your tied up to the main wharf and use the heads you have to have a holding tank. If your 100 meters off the wharf it's open slather! The tank for discharging your holding tank is at Nowra which you can't get too in your vessel anyway. If you could you would not have the correct connection either!. It's legal to dump your waste at sea though from your holding tank. Not sure what the legal distance is but I think it's 2 miles. I think a macerator is all that's required.
Hi Ramona
Where you say "You don't need a holding tank" are you referring to your local area or to a ruling you've seen. I must admit I've been toing & froing on the whole holding tank thing for a while now.
The RMS website is very obtuse in it's information.
First it says there are no SPECIFIC regulations but then later it says it's an offense to pollute the waterways. I wish they'd just come out and give a ruling
Confused...
The "rules" I quoted are from the annual inspections I used to be subjected to each year for vessels in survey and apply for Greenwell Point. Lukas is moored near my vessel and asked about the regulations for this place. I have been retired 10 years now and do not have a vessel in survey anymore but as far as I am aware the regulations have not changed. The regulations for Here are different from Sydney Harbour and Pittwater. The rules and regulations are more strict for commercial operators. Charter boats have to have holding tanks. Fishing vessels have to as well if they have an installed toilet. If they don't once they are more than 100 metres from public toilets or the wharf then it's up to you. I personally think if a macerator is used it's treated! We only have one live aboard here at the moment and his waste would be insignificant compared to all the duck **** we have to contend with. A few weeks back a dead pig bumped into my tender while I was sitting in it. All sorts of farm fecal matter enter the river system.
Select to expand quotesouthace said..
I have posted previously on here about gravity dump holding tanks fitted same system in the past cruising yachts I have owned although I cooped some negitivivity from a fellow post on this site . But 2.5 years on its still going strong. Calcium and paper in toilets and holding tanks can be killer. I have a back wash system on my latest instalment and looking into toliet paper being put into brown paper bags!
I like the idea of gravity dump holding tank ! I guess something like the airhead is an alternative ? No holes in the boat they look a it chunky tho
Select to expand quotesouthace said..claverton said..Jethrow said..Ramona said..mottle33 said..
Hi
i am in the middle of installing a holding tank for my head. The output goes directly to the holding tank which then can be pumped out to the seacock when out to sea, or sucked out at a marina. It seems like a good idea to hold onto my waste rather than pumping it out wherever one does their business, on anchor...on a mooring etc. While a holding tank is not mandatory, it seems like a better way for those in the water around the boat, not swimming in their own effluent.
What do others think? Are the use of holding tanks a good idea for the environment, as it redistributes the waste over a larger area (if one pumps it out while sailing)??
Cheers Lukas
Capricorn Dancer (Mottle 33) Greenwell Point NSW
You don't need a holding tank Lukas. Basically here if you have a boat with heads installed and your tied up to the main wharf and use the heads you have to have a holding tank. If your 100 meters off the wharf it's open slather! The tank for discharging your holding tank is at Nowra which you can't get too in your vessel anyway. If you could you would not have the correct connection either!. It's legal to dump your waste at sea though from your holding tank. Not sure what the legal distance is but I think it's 2 miles. I think a macerator is all that's required.
Hi Ramona
Where you say "You don't need a holding tank" are you referring to your local area or to a ruling you've seen. I must admit I've been toing & froing on the whole holding tank thing for a while now.
The RMS website is very obtuse in it's information.
First it says there are no SPECIFIC regulations but then later it says it's an offense to pollute the waterways. I wish they'd just come out and give a ruling
Confused...
I'd argue that putting human fecal matter in the small quantities coming from yachts isn't pollution in a marine environment. As MorningBird points out, bacteria in poo live in a fresh water environment (ie humans) and won't survive in a marine environment. Happy to be corrected if wrong on this but difficult to conclude otherwise.
The previous owner of my boat had put in a jerry built holding tank arrangement. It was a shocker, stank, leaked everywhere. First job (no pun intended) I did on the boat was pull the thing out.
So where do you put it Now?
either offshore or in the marina bathrooms
I would be interested in seeing your setup.
I am thinking of installing on im my Mottle.
Just not sure how to go about it.
When the hull was made they were thinking of waste and Qld. and designed a holding tank into the port side lazarette. Glass, integral with plumbing.
I fitted a 60 litre Diablo black water tank in my Adams 31CC, in the base of the Lazarette, with a manual pump out. This would last 2 people 3+ days. Get hold of a Peggy Hall's book on boat toilet systems. Great info on basics such as required ventilation to holding tank - getting air into the tank, not just letting gases out, so it maintains aerobic bacteria (good ones) not anerobic bacteria (smelly ones).
Adequately ventilated holding tanks work work well until they overflow. Then it's a **** of a job to clean up the mess!
Select to expand quotetwodogs1969 said..
I would be interested in seeing your setup.
I am thinking of installing on im my Mottle.
Just not sure how to go about it.
I have a diablo 60l tank in the wet locker next to the head, skin fitting is under the sink, head connected directly to holding tank, holding tank pump out is a manual pump behind head, going via vented loop to ball valve and outlet. I have not installed it yet,but will send you pics if you like. The breather will exit on somewhere, not decided just yet.
Cheers Lukas
Select to expand quotemottle33 said..twodogs1969 said..
I would be interested in seeing your setup.
I am thinking of installing on im my Mottle.
Just not sure how to go about it.
I have a diablo 60l tank in the wet locker next to the head, skin fitting is under the sink, head connected directly to holding tank, holding tank pump out is a manual pump behind head, going via vented loop to ball valve and outlet. I have not installed it yet,but will send you pics if you like. The breather will exit on somewhere, not decided just yet.
Cheers Lukas
Ok cool thanks
