At 7:10 he introduces a "Fishing Net Tracer" for 50 euros.
Then goes on to say how he reconfigured it to become a functioning AIS transmitter.
I checked Marine Traffic and he is there.
What are your thoughts?
Gary
Other's who've bitten the bullet may be able to give a more precise figure, but I reckon an AIS unit with a masthead antenna (necessitating a splitter) is going to set you back about 1.5 boat vouchers.
If I personally were equipping my boat to do the kind of sailing, where in my limited experience I think I'd want AIS - i.e. passage making, reduced watchkeeping, trying to avoid a Jessica Watson scenario I would want the absolute largest radius I could get and 1500 bucks to avoid getting run down in the middle of the night seems like not a large expense. Given that ships / fishos may not be glued to their AIS and the fishos in particular aren't going to have the reception range of the ships I'd want to give them the best chance of seeing me.
That said if I was living on my boat and living off youtube 1500 bucks might be way outside the price range in which case, better to be seen at 5 miles for 100 bucks than not seen at all!
1. If I were to abandon ship I'll put more trust in my EPIRB
2. Looks like he's cheaped out on a few things, except for his Starlink
3. Something is probably better than nothing.
4. I'm just not that clever. I had to buy my AIS
He's transmitting but not receiving. But not bad for 50 Euros.
Maybe for your lifejacket/lifeline.. so the mothership with proper ais can find you?
Select to expand quoteToph said..
He mentioned having "passive AIS" which I took to mean he receives.
If it's designed to help locate fishing nets it means he doesn't get to see the other ships etc but they see him. That's my take.
Can't see them for sale in Aus.
There is something that looks identical, and a bunch looking similar, on AliBaba for $30 up. I think we may grab one.
I respect people with differing views, but I've never come remotely close to having a ship or trawler sneak up on me and I'm always looking out for fishing nets, tinnies, etc so don't see much need for AIS. If we look at the data on causes of death we're probably better off putting our time and money on having a medical check-up and then spending time working on our MOB recovery, including being able to get back aboard by ourselves. Getting run down is a tiny risk and logically should be well down on the priority risk. YMMV.
Accuracy would be the issue I suspect. epirbs with gps are in the 100-120 meter range (some say +-50m), without gps it's something like 5km. So probably not the best for a MOB device.
That's just a transmitter that fisherman use on marker buoys. Locally the tuna longliners would have them at either end of their longlines and probably a few in between. Once the lines are run out the fishing boat can keep track of their line as it drifts down the coast. And the other longlines from other boats in the area. The problem with long lines is the current is often quite different at either end and the lines can come back on themselves. Also other boats long lines can drift down on them. While the lines are in the water the longliner drives along the line burlying and clearing off the tuna. The lines are deep and will not effect yachts but the longliners will often separate the line to let large ships through. They have always used transmitters to do this but now the market has developed cheap AIS to do the job.
I should add that other line boats and trawlers do not have to carry AIS equipment nor do warships. Commonwealth fishing boats do have transponders transmitting 24 hours a day everyday but only the pricks in Canberra monitor that.
I'm not really getting the point of this. Don't you have to have an MMSI number to register an AIS device? To get an MMSI number I think you also have to get a radio licence.
I assume therefore apart from redundancy the device is only useful for people who have a radio licence and a radio not capable of sending AIS signal.
If you have a radio capable of sending an AIS signal then is it possible to register two devices with the same mmsi number? Presumably not as if the devices become separated no one knows where you are.
Also if the device is the only device relied upon to send an AIS signal it by itself is not necessarily of any use if you sink and take it with you because then people would assume the yacht was still floating and be looking for a yacht if you manage to get out a separate SOS via ePirb or otherwise.
I guess therefore it is just a way for people with a non AIS transmitting radio to have some chance of being seen by others rather than something useful in an emergency.
Am I correcting all these assumptions? Also there seem to be a couple of versions of available on aliexpress from $30 up but with slightly different part numbers for the ones around $30 to the ones around $100 and up.
In areas where there is not so much traffic this gear is not so necessary, but in busy waterways it is pretty useful.
I will clear up a few points.
This is not an EPIRB or a substitute for a MOB situation..
It is an AIS transmitter and it works. It lets other vessels know where you are.
As for accuracy, it would seem to be as accurate as a normal AIS transmitter, (depending on the timer settings)
I am in Japan and I can see him in France.
He will be able to see other vessels with his AIS assisted VHF. His VHF registration also acts as his AIS sign.
He can link his VHF to a chartplotter or nav app to see and identify other vessels more clearly and activate a distance warning.
He is in the English channel area, so there are a lot of vessels around.
AIS reception is the cheap easy part. Transmission is what cost the dollars.
The part that gets me is that an AIS transmitter is expensive. He mentions 1000 euro in the video.
$1499 from Whitties (combined VHF/AIS with a tiny screen!)
Here he has a working AIS transmitter for 50 euro. Which must be pretty robust to be thrown into the ocean tied to a fishing net.
I am not being a cheapy or looking for a bargain, but am struck again (and again) about the price of a piece of equipment that is way overpriced.
gary
Select to expand quoteMadmouse said..Toph said..
He mentioned having "passive AIS" which I took to mean he receives.
If it's designed to help locate fishing nets it means he doesn't get to see the other ships etc but they see him. That's my take.
Can't see them for sale in Aus.
Madhouse, sorry we are on different pages. In the video he mention he has passive AIS, so he can already receive AIS signals from other vessels. I agree that this DIY device is to transmit.
Gary, the only reason why I mention EPIRB is that he says in the video that he can pick it up and take with him in the life raft. The issue with that is he is not transmitting any distress signal. In fact people will see his AIS signal and avoid him.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..
If you have a radio capable of sending an AIS signal then is it possible to register two devices with the same mmsi number? Presumably not as if the devices become separated no one knows where you are.
Jules, yes it is possible and you should. My AIS is a standalone unit, but the MMSI is the same number for my VHF (DCS needs it) and my HF. In essence the MMSI belongs to the boat - but it's not technically registered to the boat. No appliances are sold with a MMSI and the number is inputted after sale. In Australia we do it ourselves. In some countries the retailer must input the number.
In the beginning of Vagabonds travels, they actually 'stole' or used someone else's number. So yes, it can be done. It's just a number after all.
Hi Toph.
RE: Gary, the only reason why I mention EPIRB is that he says in the video that he can pick it up and take with him in the life raft. The issue with that is he is not transmitting any distress signal. In fact people will see his AIS signal and avoid him.
I missed that part in the Video. Definitely NOT an EPIRB, as you say.
Interesting, they look like they might be 5W. socotran.com/products/fishing-net-tracker-locator-gps-marine-ais-netsonde-net-sonde-for-boating-rs-109m
According to the interwaves a class B transponder can only be 2W.
I'd question whether they were legal for yachties.
OK saw this: www.milltechmarine.com/Class-B-AIS-Transponders_c_43.htmlThat site's quite informative. Says 5W is legit for class B.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
There is something that looks identical, and a bunch looking similar, on AliBaba for $30 up. I think we may grab one.
I respect people with differing views, but I've never come remotely close to having a ship or trawler sneak up on me and I'm always looking out for fishing nets, tinnies, etc so don't see much need for AIS. If we look at the data on causes of death we're probably better off putting our time and money on having a medical check-up and then spending time working on our MOB recovery, including being able to get back aboard by ourselves. Getting run down is a tiny risk and logically should be well down on the priority risk. YMMV.
I think there are parts of the world that get fog and parts that don't. In the UK it's possible to get fog at any time of year and when you do, you will be glad you have AIS and hoping like hell that everyone else has it too.
Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
In areas where there is not so much traffic this gear is not so necessary, but in busy waterways it is pretty useful.
I will clear up a few points.
This is not an EPIRB or a substitute for a MOB situation..
It is an AIS transmitter and it works. It lets other vessels know where you are.
As for accuracy, it would seem to be as accurate as a normal AIS transmitter, (depending on the timer settings)
I am in Japan and I can see him in France.
He will be able to see other vessels with his AIS assisted VHF. His VHF registration also acts as his AIS sign.
He can link his VHF to a chartplotter or nav app to see and identify other vessels more clearly and activate a distance warning.
He is in the English channel area, so there are a lot of vessels around.
AIS reception is the cheap easy part. Transmission is what cost the dollars.
The part that gets me is that an AIS transmitter is expensive. He mentions 1000 euro in the video.
$1499 from Whitties (combined VHF/AIS with a tiny screen!)
Here he has a working AIS transmitter for 50 euro. Which must be pretty robust to be thrown into the ocean tied to a fishing net.
I am not being a cheapy or looking for a bargain, but am struck again (and again) about the price of a piece of equipment that is way overpriced.
gary
Does the vessel's name show up on the receiving screens?
If I was thinking of going down this road, I'd check with ACMA and AMSA that fish net trackers using AIS are legal in Australia.
As I recall, I had to register my AIS with AMSA including class, make and model and serial number.
I understand in the US, cheap fish net trackers are illegal and can give rise to substantial fines. No idea if that is the case here in Australia.
Also as I discovered recently, you're not supposed to put your vessel's MMSI into portable equipment (such as handheld VHF with DSC). This is because it may not be with the vessel at all times. Portable devices have an MMSI staring with 8 before the country code, whereas vessel MMSI (eg for AIS) starts with country code (503 in Oz)
Hi Ramona.
In my screenshot of Vessel Finder you can see the Flag (Norwegian) and the vessel name, Emilie Karoline.
The owners have not input other details , like photographs, destination etc.
Not sure if that is because it is difficult to do or just not interested.
However, all other vessels can see her name, vessel type, course and speed.
To try it, go it go to Vessel Finder. www.vesselfinder.com/
Input her name (Vessels) and it should pop up.
gary
Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
Hi Ramona.
In my screenshot of Vessel Finder you can see the Flag (Norwegian) and the vessel name, Emilie Karoline.
The owners have not input other details , like photographs, destination etc.
Not sure if that is because it is difficult to do or just not interested.
However, all other vessels can see her name, vessel type, course and speed.
To try it, go it go to Vessel Finder. www.vesselfinder.com/
Input her name (Vessels) and it should pop up.
gary
That's an interesting page. I looked at the handful of vessels offshore in my area at the moment. I think there was one with a name. The rest were identified as cargo ship, fishing vessel or just a number. I think that page is for people who have registered their details with them. I think the other vessels with receivers would see just a number appear on their screen as they got in to range. I occasionally get contacts that have nothing but a number and they could be fishing beacons! I'm happy to be corrected by some one who has seen this item on an AIS screen.
Risk your life and safety for 50 dollars. I think not. What sort of spurious logic is this where you can afford a yacht and then when it comes to the essential safety equipment you dont want to invest in quality equipment and penny pinch with hack jobs. Then this very guy has to pay marine fees that amount to 100 to 180 Euros a day for cruising in Europe. I have no time for this kind of stupidity especially when it its primary safety equipment that has to work at all costs. I can foresee a day when the battery goes flat and the THINGAMAJIG stops working and a ship runs him down when he "thought that it was working and ok" Maybe he will be the guy that wants to win the Darwin award by climbing Mount Everest with Aliexpress equipment. Whats next, is he going to turn a 50 cent kids sparkler into a rescue flare?
Would be good for a short day or short hop kind of person who hasn't or wont spring for the expensive radio. Anyway an interesting find. My TS doesn't have an AIS transmitter and if nothing else it is interesting for relatives and friends to see where you are.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
That's an interesting page. I looked at the handful of vessels offshore in my area at the moment. I think there was one with a name. The rest were identified as cargo ship, fishing vessel or just a number. I think that page is for people who have registered their details with them. I think the other vessels with receivers would see just a number appear on their screen as they got in to range. I occasionally get contacts that have nothing but a number and they could be fishing beacons! I'm happy to be corrected by some one who has seen this item on an AIS screen.
I prefer Marine Traffic
(www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:151.7/centery:-33.0/zoom:11)
Compared to
Vessel Finder
I have a Maiana AIS transceiver with a dAISy receiver as backup. There is also an AIS receiver in my VHF radio which I never use.
Select to expand quoteJonE said..Chris 249 said..
There is something that looks identical, and a bunch looking similar, on AliBaba for $30 up. I think we may grab one.
I respect people with differing views, but I've never come remotely close to having a ship or trawler sneak up on me and I'm always looking out for fishing nets, tinnies, etc so don't see much need for AIS. If we look at the data on causes of death we're probably better off putting our time and money on having a medical check-up and then spending time working on our MOB recovery, including being able to get back aboard by ourselves. Getting run down is a tiny risk and logically should be well down on the priority risk. YMMV.
I think there are parts of the world that get fog and parts that don't. In the UK it's possible to get fog at any time of year and when you do, you will be glad you have AIS and hoping like hell that everyone else has it too.
Yes, you are of course right about other parts of the world. I've just never had a problem in Oz.
Select to expand quotep3p4p5 said..
Risk your life and safety for 50 dollars. I think not. What sort of spurious logic is this where you can afford a yacht and then when it comes to the essential safety equipment you dont want to invest in quality equipment and penny pinch with hack jobs. Then this very guy has to pay marine fees that amount to 100 to 180 Euros a day for cruising in Europe. I have no time for this kind of stupidity especially when it its primary safety equipment that has to work at all costs. I can foresee a day when the battery goes flat and the THINGAMAJIG stops working and a ship runs him down when he "thought that it was working and ok" Maybe he will be the guy that wants to win the Darwin award by climbing Mount Everest with Aliexpress equipment. Whats next, is he going to turn a 50 cent kids sparkler into a rescue flare?
But it's not "essential safety equipment". People have sailed yachts for many decades without it and lived to tell the tale. When was the last yacht run down around Australia, for example?
Yes, Jessica Watson hit a ship but it was in broad daylight IIRC so there was no need to rely on AIS. That was 14 years ago. It's not "stupidity" to think that it is not "essential" to have something to guard against an incident that occurs about once every 14 years around here, and not even very often around France.
Getting run down by a ship an incredibly rare event, and therefore simple logic (and proper risk analysis) states that it should be considered as such, and a partial cure for an extremely low risk is not "essential".
In the USA, which has areas with dense fog and dense shipping, a study of 11 years of sailing deaths showed NO deaths through poor visibility, which is the only time AIS is anything remotely like "essential". In contrast there were 17 deaths from people intentionally getting off yachts (ie to get a dinghy or clear a prop) and 64 deaths from falling overboard.
So AIS is clearly NOT essential - there seems to have been NO deaths that AIS could have prevented in that extensive US sample of over a decade. And the reality is that time and money are limited, and therefore the rational approach is to concentrate on addressing the problems that DO cause deaths - and among yachties that is overwhelmingly going over the side, capsizing, and probably the usual health issues. Even getting hit by a prop caused more deaths among yachties, so a proper evidence-based logic-driven approach may well ignore AIS in favour of putting in a propguard.
As yachties, overwhelmingly our actual significant risks seem to going overboard and not getting enough exercise. It is more logical to address those problems than the vanishingly small risk of getting run down in conditions where an AIS could have been the difference between an accident occurring or not.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..p3p4p5 said..
Risk your life and safety for 50 dollars. I think not. What sort of spurious logic is this where you can afford a yacht and then when it comes to the essential safety equipment you dont want to invest in quality equipment and penny pinch with hack jobs. Then this very guy has to pay marine fees that amount to 100 to 180 Euros a day for cruising in Europe. I have no time for this kind of stupidity especially when it its primary safety equipment that has to work at all costs. I can foresee a day when the battery goes flat and the THINGAMAJIG stops working and a ship runs him down when he "thought that it was working and ok" Maybe he will be the guy that wants to win the Darwin award by climbing Mount Everest with Aliexpress equipment. Whats next, is he going to turn a 50 cent kids sparkler into a rescue flare?
But it's not "essential safety equipment". People have sailed yachts for many decades without it and lived to tell the tale. When was the last yacht run down around Australia, for example?
Yes, Jessica Watson hit a ship but it was in broad daylight IIRC so there was no need to rely on AIS. That was 14 years ago. It's not "stupidity" to think that it is not "essential" to have something to guard against an incident that occurs about once every 14 years around here, and not even very often around France.
Getting run down by a ship an incredibly rare event, and therefore simple logic (and proper risk analysis) states that it should be considered as such, and a partial cure for an extremely low risk is not "essential".
In the USA, which has areas with dense fog and dense shipping, a study of 11 years of sailing deaths showed NO deaths through poor visibility, which is the only time AIS is anything remotely like "essential". In contrast there were 17 deaths from people intentionally getting off yachts (ie to get a dinghy or clear a prop) and 64 deaths from falling overboard.
So AIS is clearly NOT essential - there seems to have been NO deaths that AIS could have prevented in that extensive US sample of over a decade. And the reality is that time and money are limited, and therefore the rational approach is to concentrate on addressing the problems that DO cause deaths - and among yachties that is overwhelmingly going over the side, capsizing, and probably the usual health issues. Even getting hit by a prop caused more deaths among yachties, so a proper evidence-based logic-driven approach may well ignore AIS in favour of putting in a propguard.
As yachties, overwhelmingly our actual significant risks seem to going overboard and not getting enough exercise. It is more logical to address those problems than the vanishingly small risk of getting run down in conditions where an AIS could have been the difference between an accident occurring or not.
Jessica Watson had AIS. She did not have the alarm set correctly.
Select to expand quoteLazzz said..Ramona said..
That's an interesting page. I looked at the handful of vessels offshore in my area at the moment. I think there was one with a name. The rest were identified as cargo ship, fishing vessel or just a number. I think that page is for people who have registered their details with them. I think the other vessels with receivers would see just a number appear on their screen as they got in to range. I occasionally get contacts that have nothing but a number and they could be fishing beacons! I'm happy to be corrected by some one who has seen this item on an AIS screen.
I prefer Marine Traffic
(www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:151.7/centery:-33.0/zoom:11)
Compared to
Vessel Finder
I have a Maiana AIS transceiver with a dAISy receiver as backup. There is also an AIS receiver in my VHF radio which I never use.
The contacts on those pages are registered. The fishing buoy transceiver would not show the details,name, course and speed unless it was registered in Canberra I should imagine.
I use OpenCPN with a large screen. The AIS targets appear with the vessels name, course and speed and vector lines for an intercept if it is likely. I do occasionally get just a number from a target that is not moving.
Annoyingly I get a lot of contacts from moored yachts that probably have not moved for years!
Select to expand quoteRamona said.
Does the vessel's name show up on the receiving screens?
Depends on the receiving screen. Each AIS broadcast contains the following information (there are multiple message types but for class b message type 18 is the one most people think of when they think of leisure AIS) :
MMSI, COG, SOG, Longitude and latitude, time, heading, ships navigation status
Since the MMSI is part of thr message it can be associated with a ship's name. Many plotters allow you to define those manually and so does Expedition and OpenCPN.
Also, because MMSI is known, even if you don't know the ship's name, you can use DSC to contact the ship directly.
Note that Class A AIS, used on commercial ships has additional fields that include Name, Call Sign that make contacting them easier.
Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
At 7:10 he introduces a "Fishing Net Tracer" for 50 euros.
Then goes on to say how he reconfigured it to become a functioning AIS transmitter.
I checked Marine Traffic and he is there.
What are your thoughts?
Gary
Took me a while to watch but my key takeaway: terrible idea.
He used a programming port on a AIS buoy to broadcast as a ship. Realistically it is a simple task. The radio required for the devixes types are largely the same, the difference tentds to be the power and the nessages they send.
It is a terrible idea. Why?
First because it is unlicensed. Radios are a highly regulated industry and for a reason, a crappy transmiter can ruins all its surroundings with noise.
But if the good of the common good is not enough, the transmiter is not on the highest part of the boat (I am looking at you top of mast VHF antenna....)
But it gets better, he says he would taking on a life raft. Bizarre. AIS and DSC MOBs are designated as such. As soon you deploy one, alarms will start triggering on every nearby vessel. A boat's AIS? Well just another vessel that we should? Yeah... We should avoid...
AIS range is limited while EPIRBs are monitored from space. Want an easy to grab location device? Buy a PLB. Don't want an unidirecional PLB? Buy a garmin two way device (will need subscription). Nowadays even iPhones can page via satellites.
I can keep going but it is late and I am off to sleep:
Your life is worth more than the money you are trying to save.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..p3p4p5 said..
Risk your life and safety for 50 dollars. I think not. What sort of spurious logic is this where you can afford a yacht and then when it comes to the essential safety equipment you dont want to invest in quality equipment and penny pinch with hack jobs. Then this very guy has to pay marine fees that amount to 100 to 180 Euros a day for cruising in Europe. I have no time for this kind of stupidity especially when it its primary safety equipment that has to work at all costs. I can foresee a day when the battery goes flat and the THINGAMAJIG stops working and a ship runs him down when he "thought that it was working and ok" Maybe he will be the guy that wants to win the Darwin award by climbing Mount Everest with Aliexpress equipment. Whats next, is he going to turn a 50 cent kids sparkler into a rescue flare?
But it's not "essential safety equipment". People have sailed yachts for many decades without it and lived to tell the tale. When was the last yacht run down around Australia, for example?
Yes, Jessica Watson hit a ship but it was in broad daylight IIRC so there was no need to rely on AIS. That was 14 years ago. It's not "stupidity" to think that it is not "essential" to have something to guard against an incident that occurs about once every 14 years around here, and not even very often around France.
Getting run down by a ship an incredibly rare event, and therefore simple logic (and proper risk analysis) states that it should be considered as such, and a partial cure for an extremely low risk is not "essential".
In the USA, which has areas with dense fog and dense shipping, a study of 11 years of sailing deaths showed NO deaths through poor visibility, which is the only time AIS is anything remotely like "essential". In contrast there were 17 deaths from people intentionally getting off yachts (ie to get a dinghy or clear a prop) and 64 deaths from falling overboard.
So AIS is clearly NOT essential - there seems to have been NO deaths that AIS could have prevented in that extensive US sample of over a decade. And the reality is that time and money are limited, and therefore the rational approach is to concentrate on addressing the problems that DO cause deaths - and among yachties that is overwhelmingly going over the side, capsizing, and probably the usual health issues. Even getting hit by a prop caused more deaths among yachties, so a proper evidence-based logic-driven approach may well ignore AIS in favour of putting in a propguard.
As yachties, overwhelmingly our actual significant risks seem to going overboard and not getting enough exercise. It is more logical to address those problems than the vanishingly small risk of getting run down in conditions where an AIS could have been the difference between an accident occurring or not.
Look, you make some good points about safety in yachting as a whole, something that can be easily missed or overlooked when discussing the latest topic to be seen as critical.
On the whole, I would like yachties to become more professional in their approach to this maritime pastime and safety on board and at sea. Most boats aren't like a modern car where you can just jump on and take it for a spin.
According to the ATSB back in 2015, over the previous 26 years there had been 41 Collisions between Trading Vessels and Small vessels (not just sailing)on Australias coasts. The investigations identified that improper lookout and not taking early action were the consistent and continuing contributors to these collisions.
As someone who knows how hard it is to maintain a good lookout while relaxing or racing on a yacht as well as how hard it is to see and identify the intentions of said yachts from a busy wheelhouse, I would really like AIS to be much more widespread.
AIS doesn't absolve anyone from maintaining a good look out, but it can really help identify and assist with dealing appropriately with situations before they pose a problem.
If only 5% of Bulk Carrier collisions are with Sailing Vessels, AIS set correctly will certainly reduce the likelihood of your being in that 5%.
A slow moving, 10m yacht can be very hard to see until relatively close, especially dusk til dawn when nav lights only need to be visible a couple of miles.
