Select to expand quoteSupChickadee said..
Hey Dave
You've got a "nice guy" saying to you that he felt you got in the way and it sounds like the "nice guy" didn't take the wave as he didn't want to take the chance of hitting you - which is best. When in doubt don't take off as its not worth hurting anyone or your equipment and 20 feet is only 7 metres which is nothing on a take off - as gap closes super quick.
Nice guy wasn't happy - chances are you were in the wrong. Me, i'd say sorry mate, keep out of his way and enjoy the rest of the session as only 4 of you out having fun 
Ok thanks for your feedback, we all kept having fun, I did not think I was wrong in any way so I will take it all on board. At no stage was there any way I would have been hit by anything regardless of someone taking off but I will cut in on their inside from now on if I am in the same position. If I then happen to be on their inside and able to take the wave I will do so as I will have right of way.
I don't think you've done anything wrong. Now, I have never surfed in Australia, so things may be different there, but I have surfed in different countries in both hemispheres and it's only normal to assume that everyone will scratch for the shoulder, as per your picture. So, when positioning to own the wave, you need to take that into account and decide whether you will go around people on the left, or the right of them, depending on their position and what the wave is doing.
If I did what the guy did in the story in lineups with others, then I would never catch any waves.
How big were the waves at the time? 20ft separation is only about 3 board lengths. You make up that 3 board lengths at lot faster on a drop on a 6ft day vs. 2ft day.
If you really felt that you had ample separation, you could yell "Go Go Go!" to them to let them know you are aware and getting out of their way. He may have been continuing to paddle out to try and get some distance from you and thus missed the wave. Everyone's comfort zone and perception is different. You may have perceived your 20ft of separation was where the lines of arrows in your drawing end, he may have perceived your locations to be where the red circles in Hilly's markup are.
On a surfboard, I've had people drop-in right over me as I was ducking the wave - apparently confident that my forward momentum under the wave and their forward momentum on top of the wave were enough to miss me. I still tuck in my knees when they pass over though for fear of getting my Achilles sliced! I tend err on the side of caution and give a wide berth to people stuck on the inside.
Appreciate the feedback, it's mixed which is ok and it gives me things to think about. I just won't get in that initial position again so then there is no dispute as to who is cutting who off or I will be clear in what I am doing so they know not to worry about me.
Theres always two views ,he should of seen your line of paddle to and paddled toward the wave not putting you in danger ,I surf with lots of surfers and I know I have a 8'8 foot board plus legrope 8 foot ,so a 17-18 foot KILL zone ,
,there always will be more future occurrences ahead Dave ,I shake it off everyday ,I always head out the back ,and try to catch the wave before its peaking ,it pisses the surfers off no end ,but sorry guys my wave ,they say nothing as most are way younger than me and relies my time in the surf will be coming to a end one day and they will still be out there ,
but until then ,stay clear grommets ,
Select to expand quoteTardy said..
Theres always two views ,he should of seen your line of paddle to and paddled toward the wave not putting you in danger ,I surf with lots of surfers and I know I have a 8'8 foot board plus legrope 8 foot ,so a 17-18 foot KILL zone ,,there always will be more future occurrences ahead Dave ,I shake it off everyday ,I always head out the back ,and try to catch the wave before its peaking ,it pisses the surfers off no end ,but sorry guys my wave ,they say nothing as most are way younger than me and relies my time in the surf will be coming to a end one day and they will still be out there , but until then ,stay clear grommets ,
Yep its all good I asked a question and got some good answers on both perspectives. Like I said I will not allow someone to be ahead of me and if they are I will cut in toward the peak and hopefully have right of way, as you said thats the way I should have gone.
I asked because I thought I was in the right because I saw no risk, but as others said there are 2 perceptions. I will speak up next time and say keep going I will be out of the way I am no where near you.
Hopefully no one will run over me scarring me for life?
Hi Dave
You said one thing that made it clear to me why he was upset.
"to me they will have right of way on the wave should they choose to take off, albeit a bit of a late one"
albeit a bit of a late one.....
I won't commit to a sketchy takeoff if there is anyone inside of me.
It seems he made the decision not to takeoff because he didn't want to take the chance of blowing the drop and possibly hitting you.
My very strong belief:
"Surfing is always about the rider, never the person paddling out"
Do everything in your power to leave a clear path for the person in position
That means taking one on the head, so they have a clear path down the wave.
Dave, it sounds from your description that you made a bad choice. It isn't really your decision that you have given the guy enough room to take off, it's his, just like if he was up and surfing you can't scratch for the shoulder because you have decided the person surfing has room to avoid you if they do a cutback. Sometimes, even when it is big you have to suck it up and get hammered. Due to traveling for work I have spent a lot of time surfing in new spots and I will also tell you that almost nothing wins you the respect of a local crowd faster than if they see you are willing to take a big set on the head to avoid getting in someone's way. It might help to think of it as a bit of short term suffering that will pay off down the road.
Select to expand quoteSurlygringo said..
Dave, it sounds from your description that you made a bad choice. It isn't really your decision that you have given the guy enough room to take off, it's his, just like if he was up and surfing you can't scratch for the shoulder because you have decided the person surfing has room to avoid you if they do a cutback. Sometimes, even when it is big you have to suck it up and get hammered. Due to traveling for work I have spent a lot of time surfing in new spots and I will also tell you that almost nothing wins you the respect of a local crowd faster than if they see you are willing to take a big set on the head to avoid getting in someone's way. It might help to think of it as a bit of short term suffering that will pay off down the road.
20 feet does seem a bit close. I don't generally hang around other people too closely and if someone sits or stands too close, then I tend to paddle away. However, the key question for me is who came close to who, which I think is missing from the story, unless I missed it.
Select to expand quotesupthecreek said..
Hi Dave
You said one thing that made it clear to me why he was upset.
"to me they will have right of way on the wave should they choose to take off, albeit a bit of a late one"
albeit a bit of a late one.....
I won't commit to a sketchy takeoff if there is anyone inside of me.
It seems he made the decision not to takeoff because he didn't want to take the chance of blowing the drop and possibly hitting you.
My very strong belief:
"Surfing is always about the rider, never the person paddling out"
Do everything in your power to leave a clear path for the person in position
That means taking one on the head, so they have a clear path down the wave.
Sensible advice as always. If it's safe to go, then I'll go. If it's not, then I won't, but at the same time I don't start shouting at people if they get in my way. I may start glaring if the same person does it a few times though.
Just to clarify one point on them not taking off. The wave had a unusual peak as low tide was turning, when it looked like breaking all of a sudden it got full in small sections of the wave. They went for it it got full and the section near me and only 20ft away peaked better. I caught the wave of 3 seconds and then it also got too full to be able to ride and re broke further in. Safety or not being sure of hitting me had nothing to do with any of this. No point continuing this discussion from my point of view as it is getting clouded with scenarios that did not exist.
I'm in your camp Dave. If he was already going for the wave and taking off, sure cop it on the head. If your both scrambling out to beat the sets and while still on the way out he calls you because he may have a go at catching one - too bad.
Surly this rule only applies when one person is paddling to get out and the other is going for or on the wave.
As Creek says, "Surfing is always about the rider, never the person paddling out". But you were both paddling out.
Select to expand quotebobajob said..
I'm in your camp Dave. If he was already going for the wave and taking off, sure cop it on the head. If your both scrambling out to beat the sets and while still on the way out he calls you because he may have a go at catching one - too bad.
Surly this rule only applies when one person is paddling to get out and the other is going for or on the wave.
As Creek says, "Surfing is always about the rider, never the person paddling out". But you were both paddling out.
Thanks. Its not as if we were paddling from shore to out the back, we were waiting in the take off zone and saw bigger sets coming, we were already 200m off shore. The reef break peels right and you just paddle around and back out and you never impede on anyone paddling from shore or after you catch a wave EVER.
Going on your diagram, sorry to say, you were in the wrong. Sometimes you just have to cop one!
Making a judgment on a diagram or one person's account of a situation like this is tough, take creeks photos for example, he has "paddle out spin to take off" yet there's no sign of wake or paddle froth leading out to just before spin, now I'm not saying it didn't happen as he suggests but it looks to me he was already out and just taking off and then fell.
As with Dave's , 20 ft can be close or can be heaps of room depending on angle of attack. My opinion is no one got hurt and old mate probably went on to surf some more so get over it.
Select to expand quotemicksmith said..
Making a judgment on a diagram or one person's account of a situation like this is tough, take creeks photos for example, he has "paddle out spin to take off" yet there's no sign of wake or paddle froth leading out to just before spin, now I'm not saying it didn't happen as he suggests but it looks to me he was already out and just taking off and then fell.
As with Dave's , 20 ft can be close or can be heaps of room depending on angle of attack. My opinion is no one got hurt and old mate probably went on to surf some more so get over it.
I'll froth more next time
Just another take on this..
I get pissed off when people paddle across, blocking others and putting them in danger when an unexpected big set comes through. Its poor form. To then abuse the people they just inconvenienced and endangered is just plain rude and stupid.
Select to expand quotesaltwaterwine said..
Just another take on this..
I get pissed off when people paddle across, blocking others and putting them in danger when an unexpected big set comes through. Its poor form. To then abuse the people they just inconvenienced and endangered is just plain rude and stupid.
Absolutely nothing to do with this post, not even close???
Select to expand quoteDaveSandan said..
I may be getting a bit older but I am starting to wonder if paddling out has evolved recently, as there were no complaints like this in the 70's and 80's?
The situation is as follows. I am on a right hand breaking reef break waiting for waves and the larger sets have just sprung up and I am in the potential impact zone so I paddle to my left and in a forward angle so I can get out the back and across from the impact of the white water when it break. On my right and further out is another SUP and they do the same in a forward left heading paddle to do the same.
We are both going to avoid the breaking wave just in time and we are in the same position so to me they will have right of way on the wave should they choose to take of albeit a bit of a late one. I start getting yelled at to stop paddling in my direction as I am cutting them off and I should paddle right and get the wave on the head, why would I do that, I will get smashed???
I get far enough out and the complainer has right of way on the wave as they are on the inside and can take the wave. They turn and do not go, so I have time to turn and paddle for the take off, they have given up, I get the wave.
When I paddle out they start again saying I cut them off and stopped them from catching the wave, I was at least 20ft from them the whole time we were paddling to avoid the white water.
As far as I know if I had paddled left, gotten out the back then turned right to get on the inside of them then I would have stolen the wave or just paddled better. My intention at all times was to keep them on the inside so they had right of way and to avoid coping one on the head and washing me in to the reef, have the rules changed or are some people not clear on giving way these days??
Personally I think I am in the right and they have no idea what they are saying.
Gave up surfing here in Geelong and got back into Windsurfing Slalom after many years -more fun and social.
There is NOTHING fun and social about surfing when you're intermediate and there's 10 + people going for the same wave and listening to their ego crap
Select to expand quotecantSUPenough said..
If I was trying to catch a wave and a guy was paddling across me which made it impossible or very difficult to catch the wave (whether the surfer/sup'er is doing it to avoid copping the wave on the head or not) I would not be happy. I would not cry like a baby, but I might contemplate running my board over his face and leaving him scarred for life.
It is tough, but if you get caught inside you just need to take it on the head - unless you can 'easily' paddle so that it does not impede the person trying to catch the wave.
The way you describe it the guy probably could have caught the wave and safely avoided you, but if there is any doubt about that, sorry Dave, you should have paddled straight and given the guy the wave.
Ridiculous attitude to have, supposed to be out there having fun.
What caught my eye was "I was in a potential impact zone". The impact zone is the worst place to be. Especially with a SUP. We can't duck dive and this is where the wave will break. So either you will be getting hit by the most energy the wave is bringing or worse hinder another surfer. We all can end up there for sure. If you are alone out there maybe gamble and go for it. Otherwise avoid the clean water path, let the waves push you in and come around the impact zone the long way via the channel. If you had paddled to the right the waves energy would even be a little dissipated making the trip around calmer.
Select to expand quotesurfinJ said..
avoid the clean water path, let the waves push you in and come around the impact zone the long way via the channel.
This!
+1000.
