Go and visit your local high school. Will definitely have a kiln in the art room and may have one in Technology block for heat treatment of steel. ( older ones were removed due to asbestos lining). The process of normalising metals/alloys is pretty common as is quenching where you heat and cool quickly to get different properties. Normalising (specific to material and other alloys present) is very dependent on temp and time and being held for too long /too high a temp will promote grain growth and reduce hardness properties. The reason no one likes to plate/chrome/anodise cast aluminium is the porosity which is a product both of sand casting and the urge to keep production moving. Diecast which injects molten alloy under pressure gives a much better finish due to the quality of the steel mould vs sand mould and the more universal cooling rate before the mould opens. Diecast also tend to be much finer products ( Matchbox cars) but the newer car alloy heads are pressure cast vs old Holden red 6 cast steel in sand moulds.
Fascinating discussion. I would be surprised if anodising would produce a significantly harder surface than some epoxy paint which could be blocked and recoated. Not all epoxy paints will have the same hardness and hardness is reduced when blocked back. Let's now start a discussion on painting ??.
Die cast does produce a stronger product because it is filled under great pressure .But it's expensive to make the mold and can't produce hollw parts such as the inside of a Fangy Fin.
Not sure hardness is the ultimate goal here. Cheap, easy to make your own designs, strong, looking nice and abrasion resistant are probably my top wishes in no particular order. Whilst I don't plan on buying a Taber abraser anytime soon the local substitute is doing some dredging in sand or limestone or just cruising the weed and seeing which coating holds up best. My personal interest is just scientific curiosity and playing around. Volumes are small, based on this thread of 5years+ I think Fangman has made approx 400 fins?? or about 80 per year or about 1 1/2 per week. Knowing roughly the cost of casting, what he's flogging them for and the amount of effort in finishing them, I'd be surprised if he could afford a pack of Weetbix for his efforts, he'd certainly be way better off just working as checkout chick at Macca's... so die cast not really an option unless this whole thing goes viral on tiktok or whatever its called.
CNC option is of course intriguing, especially if can get a cheap CNC router to do the work. One issue is the giant flange on a Fangy (which is one of its big benefits), if trying to machine out of a solid billet it adds twice the material cost and almost twice machining time/cost..this becomes crazy price if you want good material. Most Fangy's are about 43mm wide which means 50mm material requirement. (this a huge benefit for cast fins as you only pay material for what you want) Enter the possible solution which many have suggested but so far no execution. Make the load bearing bit out of Al but the flange separate, since the flange bit will be in compression it is perfect application for 3D printing. Also doubles as a board saver. Requires moving the mount more forward which according to Fangman may 'give better upwind ability and stiffen the feel' . This drops the Al material requirement thickness to 20mm or 25mm plus a corresponding reduction in machining time. The 3D print cost is almost negligible and is replaceable/recyclable. Anyway, playing around with both options at present,. (Edit, yes, sure I can hang out at the high school using their kiln but not sure my kids would think its cool me hanging around for 10 hrs and the teachers/QHSE would freak when making all the super heated steam when trying to quench this bad boy)
Thought bubble. What about a 3Dprinted fillet and finbox adapter in one unit. i.e. CNC the basic fin, and then 3D print a separate fillet+adapter to suit either Powerbox or Tuttlebox?
(...and no Maccas job for me - I can afford to buy my WeetBix from Aldi)
Well, built and fired up the Bunnings special Fangy Fin Furnace only to be told by Windxtasy yesterday, "why don't you just use my kiln?" Arg! At least have backup plan now, Didn't quite finish the control electrics today but a short test run seems to suggest it might work. In theory should be able to reach 1300 degC. Reality, like wind forecasts, might be substantially different. Need to slowly dry and cure the bricks/mortar over a few days plus there's a pile of wind com'n so will be a while before actually cooking a fin. Most expensive part of the build was the steel to make the frame to hold the door. So far cost is $200 AUD for everything (bricks, mortar, element, thermocouple, controller, high temp wires, SSR, porcelain terminal blocks, steel)....coulda saved and not bought so much high temp wire, bought 10m for $25 when really only need <0.5m
Your kiln looks very professional, and the cost of materials is unbelievably low compared to what it would cost to buy a kiln.
Now I know who to come to when I want a bigger one.
Actually is quite a good idea Fangman. 3D prints are quite strong under compressional loads but notoriously weak under tension (especially between layers) so to make that work you would run threaded bar from the Al section, all the way through to the board and secure with bolts. That way the entire 3D print is under compression and only receives compressional loads. Something like the attached drawing. This also drops material thickness requirement down to 15mm thick. (The blue is Aluminium and the grey is the 3D print)
you could take the concept a step further and further reduce the Aluminium required further and still keep the entire 3D printed bit in compression by doing something like attached. You would probably just hand carve this Al tip with the angle grinder. Same as before blue is Aluminium and grey the 3D print. The threaded bar is 6mm. The cost would be <$20 for everything...would it be strong enough for windsurfing? No clue but cheap enough to find out the hard way.
Back to CNC. I suppose it would be cost prohibitive to cast a fin finished with CNC? Integral clamping blocks could be added to the casting of the fin if needed and hand removed after CNC machining. It would obviously minimise the amount of metal that needs to be removed and the finishing time needed. Along with with the benefit of much greater accuracy of the fin profile.
Back to CNC. I suppose it would be cost prohibitive to cast a fin finished with CNC? Integral clamping blocks could be added to the casting of the fin if needed and hand removed after CNC machining. It would obviously minimise the amount of metal that needs to be removed and the finishing time needed. Along with with the benefit of much greater accuracy of the fin profile.
Part of the reason for revisiting CNC was to get access to aluminium alloys that anodise nicely, so the above approach should produce nice fins but maybe not any better in the anodising step.
As for increasing the amount of 3Dprinted material, apart from any structural concerns, the reason for using aluminium was to provide a tough leading edge that could cope with abrasive weed. Whatever print material was chosen it would need to have comparable surface hardness or be cheap enough to reprint on a regular basis.
from my experience with stainless leading edges, a dissimilarity in leading edge material will lead to a step, as the softer stuff wears away faster. In this case it will cause a weed grabber half way down the fin.
That's why my stainless now covers the whole leading edge. Earlier attempts with it part of the way, ran into trouble.
Even with the stainless almost 5mm wide, the fibre glass wears away faster behind it, requiring regular bogging up.
Decrepit, everything will flex, I guess the more important question is how much flex is desirable for a fin? I've seen videos of fins flex'n at crazy angles (i.e. YT Luka Mratovic CRO751). Fusion360 has a neat simulation that allows proper FEA analysis that would answer the question in a few seconds but unfortunately need to pay a yearly subscription to get it that I can't justify. Cheaper and easier to just print and test with a dummy bottom bit. Despite prices increasing 30% over the last few months the print cost $3.40 in fully recyclable PETG printed at 20% infill. I started the design again with a full tuttle, not a universal mount but I forgot to move the tuttle connector forward. This resulted in the rear 6.2mm hole getting closer to the edge in one spot than was possible to print so got blowout in one spot. Need to tweak a little to avoid next time. I didn't have any 6mm threaded rod (I'm supposed to be in isolation, so used 3/16" rod shimmed with brass tube instead) and bolted it onto the board. Was totally solid as a rock, tried with all my might to move or break it and negligible deflection. Considering only 20% infill (i.e. 80% air), rod being 2/3 the size that ultimately would be used and some dodgy hand drilling was pretty good result. Based on this test for sure will try making a proper fin this way to see if it can handle real world. Also awesome way to make 3D prints far more rigid. (Edit: Just saw your last post Decrepit, might be a show stopper for this idea in its current form)
from my experience with stainless leading edges, a dissimilarity in leading edge material will lead to a step, as the softer stuff wears away faster. In this case it will cause a weed grabber half way down the fin.
That's why my stainless now covers the whole leading edge. Earlier attempts with it part of the way, ran into trouble.
Even with the stainless almost 5mm wide, the fibre glass wears away faster behind it, requiring regular bogging up.
maybe if the metal portion of the fin is stepped behind the 3d printed part it would allow for erosion of the softer 3d part
Excuse the drawing but if the 3d(red) were angled then erosion should be minimised and any size alloy blade (grey) fitted
Its a good idea Waricle..originally I thought making the leading edge all print and using 2mm bike spokes (first two images) but is way more complicated...your concept is simpler. 6mm threaded rod at normal tuttle angles gives allows the leading edge made out of 12x32mm flat bar. (last two images) Small enough to shape with the angle grinder. (this is FF21). Roughly Al and print cost is $6 ea.
... Let's now start a discussion on painting ??.
A while back Flex posted a question on an anodising site about the issues with cast aluminium. One of the responses suggested using brushable urethanes. I did some searching and found the some that was available here. I plan to use it to coat a too fine foil and see how it travels. I just have to save up for it first.
www.blackwoods.com.au/adhesives-sealants-fillers/repair-and-wear-resistant-compounds/devcon-flexane-compounds/flexane-brushable-devcon-0-45kg/p/00283339
(Sorry for no photo, somehow I seem to have lost the functionality to post images these days)
This is the stuff I use.
www.norstateindustrial.com.au/poly-u-400.
I don't find it super hard. it quickly wears off fins.
Well, bit of a fail. Started drying out the oven slowly...word of caution for others, AAC bricks are initially conductive (probably because Bunnings store them in the rain) which means you can't earth the frame and you also get a nice shock if you try and feel how warm the bricks are. This effect wears off once the bricks dry out and you can then earth the frame. At 540degC the outside of the bricks was about 60 degC so to further insulate and add a bit more safety I added a layer of 25mm Isowool and cased it in cement fibre. The controller could easily hold the temp within 2 degC without the blanket and within 1 deg with the wool blanket. Since the drying process took quite some time, been sailing etc, I'd forgotten I put cast FF18 fin in for original photo...oops. Was planning to do the real heat treatment today so opened oven up to find the attached. Obviously either my thermocouple is not reading correctly or material isn't as stated, probably the former. Was planning on using a junk fin Fangman had donated for first test but seem to have sacrificed a good fin..oh well.
That reminds me of the oven I made to bake windsurfers, thermometer must have got under the insulation, because it only showed 40C and the board was melting.
Well, bit of a fail. Started drying out the oven slowly...word of caution for others, AAC bricks are initially conductive (probably because Bunnings store them in the rain) which means you can't earth the frame and you also get a nice shock if you try and feel how warm the bricks are. This effect wears off once the bricks dry out and you can then earth the frame. At 540degC the outside of the bricks was about 60 degC so to further insulate and add a bit more safety I added a layer of 25mm Isowool and cased it in cement fibre. The controller could easily hold the temp within 2 degC without the blanket and within 1 deg with the wool blanket. Since the drying process took quite some time, been sailing etc, I'd forgotten I put cast FF18 fin in for original photo...oops. Was planning to do the real heat treatment today so opened oven up to find the attached. Obviously either my thermocouple is not reading correctly or material isn't as stated, probably the former. Was planning on using a junk fin Fangman had donated for first test but seem to have sacrificed a good fin..oh well.
And here I was thinking the Fangys were indestructible..
Sheesh & Fangy thought I was tuff on his fins, makes me a pussy
Yes I am afraid both you and I have well and truly lost any chance at a top spot on the Demolition Derby leaderboard Tricky.