Share your ideas to improve the sport

I'm just happy there is someone like Julien around to make a device that works.
And if for some reason it doesn't then the support is there.
Yes it can be difficult to get one, but at least he is putting an amount of effort in which very few people will do.
And that at a price point that is just low.
If he were to stop then what alternatives do we have?
- A used GT-31
- GW-60 with terrible battery life and bad reliability
- A smart watch with only 1sec sample rate (no doppler) which have terrible 2nd hand value.
- Some (time consuming) hobby project

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JulienLe said..

Bigsnut said..
JulienLe has been approached by a number of people in Australia to be agents or put there money where there mouth is. Do you want to hand over your money based on JulienLe mouth.
It's all over for JulienLe as soon as a new device is found. I don't know how everyone is being so tolerant and sucking up because it's the only device available when he wont deliver.
Love to eat my words because someone just got a parcel with 20 screen motions in it, but really , what a joke.
No wonder everyone is taking up wing dinging.

Rubbish.
If I accept an offer to sell the company, they'll never turn a profit.
If I accept the good old distributor model, the end price for users will nearly double.

When I started someone told me "you'll never achieve it, you'll sink and I won't be there to see it" (2012). When I released the first devices, someone told me "haha yeah ok but the day Garmin comes out with something, you're dead." (2016).

And guess what? The offer is even worse than then. Supply is worse. Options are worse. Shipping is worse. "Market" is worse.

It would take a mad man to enter this field. It's a mess.

I only continue because 99% of my work is done and some need/want these devices.

If me not pushing these risks on others or not taking any more risks myself doesn't suit you, launch your own product. According to your very own research, it'll be easy, and cheap, and fast, and you'll be welcomed with open arms.

I'm late on four Mini and twelve LCD. You'd think there's millions waiting. And it's not even these few complaining. No, it's the same anonymous troll account since day one. I'm sure glad you do your part.

No one has ask you to sell your business. The rubbish talk , bull****.
Simon fyfe,deryn sailquick trimmer have offered to join you and help. Your devices are brilliant but who cares if we can't get them.
Poor response JulienLe.
You have caused this frustration with comments on delivery that doesn't happen.
Everyone wants to help .
There is a market here that doesn't care about price.
Wakeup

I'd like to clarify what I meant with these "200 devices". I, as of now, have all the parts required to make the next 200 devices. I also have 80% of the parts required to make the 200 devices that will come next and 50% of the parts required for the 200 devices that will come after these. There's more parts in transit, backordered, or in production. And then there's electronic parts completely unavailable today or with wildly fluctuating/gouging prices for which it might be easier to find a replacement and change the circuit board if things don't improve.

All in all, it means the very next 200 devices are secured. I'm not quitting after these 200 devices.

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Bigsnut said..
It's all over for JulienLe as soon as a new device is found. I don't know how everyone is being so tolerant and sucking up because it's the only device available when he wont deliver.

You are describing what pretty much has happened with GPS-speedsurfing.com. They have worked with at least 3 companies to make a speedsurfing GPS, including Julien. That involved considerable effort, and at least in one case also payments to the GPS developers. But 2 of the 3 efforts ended with the GPS3 folks being disappointed. They seem to be reasonably happy with the result of their collaboration with Coros, though. The price for the GPS3-approved Coros Apex Pro and Apex Pro is around $500 US, quite a bit higher than for Motions. But it is readily available.

The chances that "a new device is found" to replace the Motion are very close to zero. There is no clearly defined process to get a new device approved, other than "send some files and get and ok from sailquik". In contrast, the GPS3 web site has clearly defined criteria. They are described for "official GPS Record devices" (www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=item&item=gpsother), but the relevance extends beyond records, which are of interest for only a few.

The very ironic thing about this is that one of the criteria that keeps other devices from being approved is the requirement for error accuracy data. While that's a great idea, those accuracy data are almost never actually used by the analysis software to identify artifacts that other filters would have missed. For example, ka72.com appears to use a filter threshold that GT-31 data can never reach. For Motion data, the error estimate thresholds in all analysis programs are so high that they completely miss many artifacts. Here's one example of a 3 knot spike that the filters don't catch:


So the situation is that many available GPS devices will not even be considered for the GPSTC because they don't give error estimates, while the error estimates of the "approved" devices are basically not used for a very large fraction of the GPSTC postings.

So back to Julien's question, specifically in context of the GPSTC:
- specify exactly and publicly what what would be needed to get another device approved
- replace the error estimate requirement with criteria for actual errors

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JulienLe said..
- GP3S bought 10 prototypes at discount prices for resale in 2018 and it ended up suiting no one. Them because I wasn't ready then (stuff like the first armbands needing a complete change) and I because I'd rather keep a direct link with users and because it makes zero financial sense when the waiting list is full.

- This is up to competitions to solve.

- I'll trust the judgment of competitions, competitors and users in the long run. GP3S/Coros have been very aggressive in advertising and sending free devices to racers. I don't. I won't. I don't care. I don't need to sell. If tomorrow I'm not needed, I'll do something else.

- It's not all about speed accuracy being reported and you know it.

- Again, it's a shame for the 16 users who are waiting for their order but when I look at the entry list of various competitions, I feel like I might have done an okay job with my means.

- I don't want to be involved in your petty games. The background of this sport is rotten. It's why nothing can be done and why I'm not enthusiast.

Just checked our GP3S email conversations from 2018 :) Actually we ordered and payed upfront 15 LCD devices in 2018 (!) At that stage the device was not defined as a "prototype" anymore to be honest.... we finally received the last devices of this order in 2020, so maybe it explains why we sometimes got a bit frustrated to see a lot of Motion devices delivered in 2019 and 2020 to other customers both in Europe and Australia....... this not the way we normally do business in the Netherlands....

Since the start-up stage mid 2018 we have invested a lot of time to support the development proces of the Motion in all ways possible, and we will continue to do so ! The Motion devices are and will be fully supported at all our platforms, including web-uploading of tracks (both .AOA and .UBX formats). We have discussed upscaling production in an earlier stage, so ordering and paying upfront taking away the final risks involved felt like the right actions to do.....to make the choice for a direct distribution model is fine by us, everybody has the choice to do so, but shortening delivery times and improving overall quality involves upfront financial investments that proofed to be hard to find in this small market

In a way i really can understand the issues Julien has to face, in the current markets there is a huge shortage of electronic components, and this situation has not improved since 2018, on the contrary.....also caused by the Covid-19 pandemic, large manufactures from example the automotive industry also have to deal with this. But at the end the consumers don't give a sh#T about all of this.... they expect a good product, a reasonable price and a predictable delivery time, if one of these three aspects fail frustrations comes along.....

So we don't have any personal issues with Julien, so no need to jump into a victim role anymore :) Will there be a market for Motion devices? Yes ....for sure it will be.... Will there be a solid demand for alternatives devices ? Yes, for sure it already is and it continue to do so.....regardless the opinions of both GPSTC and GP3S or anyone else at this forum.........