Thanks for listing these documents.
Had a look at the proposal document and the peer review document).
These are obvious:
The staff are not considered for the parking occupancy.
"Up to 40 proposed staff" should be added to the patron numbers - and divided by facilities, similar to the patron division. They need to park too?
The application and the peer review both failed to take into the consideration Windsurfers and Kiters when estimating the current use load) for the recreational area. At no point, these two sporting groups were mentioned in these reports. I don't have any statistics over this number, but at any time there would several tens of sailors parking there. At the peak times these numbers are much higher (high winds, weekends). These groups mainly occupy the parking between 11:30am and 6: 30pm in warmer months.
There is also a proposal for the walkers and beech goers to part on the alternative parking spots. I.E horse beach etc. Is this realistic? There is no grassed area , no playground, no water, showers, the access to the beach is over a hill, that side of the beach is exposed to SW winds and to more difficult swell conditions. Not for everybody.
They will first attempt to park at the Pinnaroo Point parking, then search an alternative parking. The sailors cannot use these alternative areas. That beach is also shared with dogs.
This proposal is certainly not useful to Windsurfers and Kiters as is.
Without being opposed to the actual facility, parking requirements should be given much more attention.
Select to expand quoteObelix said..
Thanks for listing these documents.
Had a look at the proposal document and the peer review document).
These are obvious:
The staff are not considered for the parking occupancy.
"Up to 40 proposed staff" should be added to the patron numbers - and divided by facilities, similar to the patron division. They need to park too?
The application and the peer review both failed to take into the consideration Windsurfers and Kiters when estimating the current use load) for the recreational area. At no point, these two sporting groups were mentioned in these reports. I don't have any statistics over this number, but at any time there would several tens of sailors parking there. At the peak times these numbers are much higher (high winds, weekends). These groups mainly occupy the parking between 11:30am and 6: 30pm in warmer months.
There is also a proposal for the walkers and beech goers to part on the alternative parking spots. I.E horse beach etc. Is this realistic? There is no grassed area , no playground, no water, showers, the access to the beach is over a hill, that side of the beach is exposed to SW winds and to more difficult swell conditions. Not for everybody.
They will first attempt to park at the Pinnaroo Point parking, then search an alternative parking. The sailors cannot use these alternative areas. That beach is also shared with dogs.
This proposal is certainly not useful to Windsurfers and Kiters as is.
Without being opposed to the actual facility, parking requirements should be given much more attention.
Sounds very much like the submission I just sent. Have you made a submission? The more that repeat these issues the better:
www.joondalup.wa.gov.au/community-consultation-on-planning-applications-submission-form?da=DA21/0725&pa=Pinnaroo%20Point%20Beach%20Park,%2020%20John%20Wilkie%20Tarn,%20Hillarys%20%E2%80%93%20Food%20and%20Beverage%20Facility%20(Caf%C3%A9/Restaurant/Tavern)
Also consider survey form by Caitlin Collins MLA for Hillarys:
www.caitlincollins.com.au/community-survey/
Select to expand quoteObelix said..
Thanks for listing these documents.
Had a look at the proposal document and the peer review document).
These are obvious:
The staff are not considered for the parking occupancy.
"Up to 40 proposed staff" should be added to the patron numbers - and divided by facilities, similar to the patron division. They need to park too?
The application and the peer review both failed to take into the consideration Windsurfers and Kiters when estimating the current use load) for the recreational area. At no point, these two sporting groups were mentioned in these reports. I don't have any statistics over this number, but at any time there would several tens of sailors parking there. At the peak times these numbers are much higher (high winds, weekends). These groups mainly occupy the parking between 11:30am and 6: 30pm in warmer months.
There is also a proposal for the walkers and beech goers to part on the alternative parking spots. I.E horse beach etc. Is this realistic? There is no grassed area , no playground, no water, showers, the access to the beach is over a hill, that side of the beach is exposed to SW winds and to more difficult swell conditions. Not for everybody.
They will first attempt to park at the Pinnaroo Point parking, then search an alternative parking. The sailors cannot use these alternative areas. That beach is also shared with dogs.
This proposal is certainly not useful to Windsurfers and Kiters as is.
Without being opposed to the actual facility, parking requirements should be given much more attention.
Pretty much what I said in the submission although missed the missing staff. Good pick up!
(Also posted on the kiting site)The proposal lists additional 22 parking spaces. If you look at the picture, you can count them - these 22 are next to the new facility. The rest is redesigned from the current layout. Around 127-128 on the current parking plus these 22.
So 150 in total.
According to their calculations,the increase is at around 100+ patrons on the parking. They forgot to add the staff parking ("up to 40 staff"). Let's say 12-15 at any time.
That's 3/4 of the parking full.
To be realistic, we may not be able to stop the development, but should insist on more parking.
The comment about the horse/dog beach is not realistic. Maybe they should ask their staff to park there?
Does the planned parking spaces involve doing anything with the oversized spaces currently there for boats/trailers? I imagine it's possible to squeeze in a few more normal sized car spaces if the boat sized spaces disappear. I can't recall ever seeing a boat launch from there except on Christmas day (jet skis).
Select to expand quotefanatic278 said..
Does the planned parking spaces involve doing anything with the oversized spaces currently there for boats/trailers? I imagine it's possible to squeeze in a few more normal sized car spaces if the boat sized spaces disappear. I can't recall ever seeing a boat launch from there except on Christmas day (jet skis).
it will be resized as per the image above.
The final count is around 180 spaces in total.
I think it is fair to discount the reconfiguration gains - vehicles currently park in spots that would be illegal (read: costly) when routine parking patrols commence by necessity.
Current busy time verge-parking, kerb-side and double parking would add up to 50-100 spaces. So the re-configuration gain + extra parking (lets be generous) is 70 - 80 spots. That should cover the staff and Playspace patrons adequately. The patrons and water sport enthusiast will have to fight it out for the rest.
Select to expand quoteWACruizer said..
I think it is fair to discount the reconfiguration gains - vehicles currently park in spots that would be illegal (read: costly) when routine parking patrols commence by necessity.
Current busy time verge-parking, kerb-side and double parking would add up to 50-100 spaces. So the re-configuration gain + extra parking (lets be generous) is 70 - 80 spots. That should cover the staff and Playspace patrons adequately. The patrons and water sport enthusiast will have to fight it out for the rest.
Yeah you just know its gonna stuff everything up, thats what councils do.
ITS A 2 STOREY TAVERN!
DA21/0725 - The City has received and is currently assessing a planning application Food and Beverage Facility (Cafe/Restaurant/Tavern) at Pinnaroo Point...
CoJ appear cautious about using the term "TAVERN" when referring to the Pinnaroo Point development proposal, preferring to use the terms "Cafe/Restaurant" or "Food and beverage facility".
CoJ website: www.joondalup.wa.gov.au/kb/resident/cafes-kiosks-and-restaurantsCaf?s, Kiosks and Restaurants
From 2013 - 2021/10 Pinnaroo Point project was classified as a "Cafe/Kiosk". Since 2021/10 - both projects became "Food and beverage facilities".
CoJ website: www.joondalup.wa.gov.au//files/councilmeetings/2021/Attach4brf210921.pdf;
Corporate Business Plan 2021/2022 - 2025/2026. Establishment of Cafes, Kiosks and Restaurants Page 80
Coincidentally, relevant DPLH / WAPC policy uses the term "cafe, restaurant".
DPLH / WAPC Policy
DC Policy 5.3 - Use of Land Reserved for Parks and Recreation and Regional Open Space
www.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-07/DCP_5-3_parks_recreation_open_space.pdf
Extract: The use and development of land reserved for Parks and Recreation or regional space which would result in restrictions to public access, notwithstanding the possible benefit which could be derived from the use and development to the general community or to a specific educational or religious group within the community, will not be supported.
Land reserved for Parks and Recreation or Regional Open Space may be used for: passive recreation; active sporting pursuits; cultural and or community activities; activities promoting community education of the environment; and/or...
uses that are compatible with and or support the amenity of the reservation...
(i.e. cafe, restaurant) where specific facilities for such purposes have been approved by the WAPC.
CoJ not listening? Another avenue...
www.dlgsc.wa.gov.au/local-government/strengthening-local-government/public-consultations/local-government-act-reform-consultation
Ah well, no more watersports at Pinnaroo 
.. but at least you'll be able to get a frothy coffee and a chocolate brownie to discuss the good old days with your mates, if you can find a parking spot.
Coming to a beach near you?
On the plus side, the yellow hashed area will be good for rig portage once access to the beach is opened again.
Located in North Shore? It is a going to be an even LONGER walk from the carpark to Pinnaroo Point.
Select to expand quoteWACruizer said..
Coming to a beach near you?
On the plus side, the yellow hashed area will be good for rig portage once access to the beach is opened again.
Scheduled for Feb 2022Select to expand quoteLocated in North Shore? It is a going to be an even LONGER walk from the carpark to Pinnaroo Point.
The City of Joondalup is seeking 12 community representatives and two youth representatives (aged 16 - 24 years) to fill positions on the City's Strategic Community Reference Group for 2022 - 2023.
The City encourages Joondalup residents from all backgrounds to nominate.
Nominations close Monday 10 January 2022.
www.research.net/r/SCRGCommunity
The Tavern development is approved:
m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=614234026669111&id=100303018062217&sfnsn=mo
Select to expand quoteWACruizer said..
The Tavern development is approved:
m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=614234026669111&id=100303018062217&sfnsn=mo
16/12/2021 - Hillarys Beach Club approved:-Jarrah Bar and Cafe
www.facebook.com/JarrahBarandCafe/
Dear Residents and Businesses at Hillarys and the surrounding community,We have some exciting news, the F&B development to be known as Hillarys Beach Club at Pinnaroo Point has received Development Approval. The proposed operators of Hillarys Beach Club, Wes D'Arcy & Ryan Esqulant are excited to announce their intention to open in early 2023. The venue will comprise of a cool caf?, kiosk, casual restaurant, lounge bar and function facilities with panoramic views across the bays of Hillarys, Mullaloo and the Indian Ocean. "This is going to be a classy, chic venue literally at the beach, it's a facility to compliment the community and enhance this coastal stretch. We understand that not all will be pleased but we are committed to operate this as a venue to perfect coastal living in this well establishment mature community. Hillarys deserves class and Hillarys Beach Club will be all about quality, class and detail" Wes & Ryan.
The City of Joondalup Annual General Meeting of Electors (thats us!)
api.joondalup.wa.gov.au/files/councilmeetings/2022/220208_BRF_AGN.pdf
TUESDAY 8 FEBRUARY 2022, 6.30pm
MOTIONS FROM ELECTORS
Any motions to be moved at the Annual General Meeting of Electors should be received in writing by the City by 9.00am on the day of the Annual General Meeting of Electors. Motions should be sent via email to: council.questions@joondalup.wa.gov.au.
Select to expand quoteClue Thirst said..
I have heard a rumour that the developer has walked away, anyone else heard that?
There is NO OFFICIAL confirmation of this "smoke bomb". CoJ AGM - There were plenty of questions about Pinnaroo Point last night, but there was no suggestion of a hold up made by The City.
Thanks to the MANY individual representations to local government, state government elected members, state government authorities...finally the City of Joondalup have agreed to involve WWA in the development of Pinnaroo Point.
WWA received an invitation from the mayor to contact The City for the purpose of consultation.
BTW there were motions passed at the AGM for CoJ to STOP editing questions in writing; Actually answer the questions; and Provide more workable processes for petitions.
E-Petition - Commercial development Pinnaroo Point - Central Node Hillarys Lot 501
The Whitford Nodes is located approximately 21kms north of Perth between Hillarys Boat Harbour and Mullaloo Beach. This sandy cuspate is unique due to its geoheritage, shape, size, and metropolitan location, forming an important north-south-east ecological linkage.
The 97ha coastal bush forever was established following an 1976 EPA Report identifying the fragility of the area from both sea and wind erosion, and was to "set an example for future beach management", intended for passive recreational use, and a high level of conservation and revegetation.
In 2013 the City of Joondalup initiated an initiative for of a small scale cafe/kiosk, that has morphed into a multi-story, 1200m2 cafe/restaurant/tavern/function room after a process that was kept confidential at every stage, with very little community consultation, or oversight.
The development has already cost ratepayers $510,712 (consultants and staff) with an additional $613,000 for provision of services, and $653,000 capital works, earning a projected $2M for ratepayers, a small fraction of what a private developer is projected to earn from the project ($440,000pa).
An online petition to the Legislative Council has been prepared to have the lease of the site reconsidered, an enquiry into the process of the City, and to have the Whitfords Nodes reaffirmed as a significant Coastal Regional and passive Recreational Parkland
Sign e-Petition here:
www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Parliament/LCePetitions.nsf/petitions/22-0011
The Hon. Martin Pritchard MLC (North Metropolitan Region) facilitated the hosting of the this E-Petition
Mitch Sideris Principal Petitioner
Select to expand quoteWACruizer said..
E-Petition - Commercial development Pinnaroo Point - Central Node Hillarys Lot 501
The Whitford Nodes is located approximately 21kms north of Perth between Hillarys Boat Harbour and Mullaloo Beach. This sandy cuspate is unique due to its geoheritage, shape, size, and metropolitan location, forming an important north-south-east ecological linkage.
The 97ha coastal bush forever was established following an 1976 EPA Report identifying the fragility of the area from both sea and wind erosion, and was to "set an example for future beach management", intended for passive recreational use, and a high level of conservation and revegetation.
In 2013 the City of Joondalup initiated an initiative for of a small scale cafe/kiosk, that has morphed into a multi-story, 1200m2 cafe/restaurant/tavern/function room after a process that was kept confidential at every stage, with very little community consultation, or oversight.
The development has already cost ratepayers $510,712 (consultants and staff) with an additional $613,000 for provision of services, and $653,000 capital works, earning a projected $2M for ratepayers, a small fraction of what a private developer is projected to earn from the project ($440,000pa).
An online petition to the Legislative Council has been prepared to have the lease of the site reconsidered, an enquiry into the process of the City, and to have the Whitfords Nodes reaffirmed as a significant Coastal Regional and passive Recreational Parkland
Sign e-Petition here:
www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Parliament/LCePetitions.nsf/petitions/22-0011
The Hon. Martin Pritchard MLC (North Metropolitan Region) facilitated the hosting of the this E-Petition
Mitch Sideris Principal Petitioner
Link didn't work for me but removing the trailing utm-source bit did.
This should
www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Parliament/LCePetitions.nsf/ePetitionSignature?openform&pet=22-0011
Closes 12th July
SURVEY
There is a current review of the Marmion Marine Park:
www.dbca.wa.gov.au/parks-and-wildlife-service/plan-for-our-parks/marmion-marine-park
The following URL allows the submission of a survey (Marine Values Mapper) to capture community values for the park.
Development and recreation are topics addressed in the survey:
marine-ecology.shinyapps.io/marinevaluesmapper-marmion/?source=CRC_SAGs
PETITION
An e-petition to the WA Legislative Council is available regarding the Pinnaroo Point development / processes:
(Thanks to Hardpole for providing a URL that should work for everyone)...
www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Parliament/LCePetitions.nsf/ePetitionSignature?openform&pet=22-0011
Let the games begin.
