Select to expand quoteTooMuchEpoxy said..
To answer the original question if money were no object i'd be riding an omen 850. Metal fuse, tight socket, stiff mast, wings look good, carbon rear fuse (bonus - metal where you need it carbon where you don't)
You get a try of these yet? I am not super soft on gear. I've had them for a year now? Ride them hard, put them away wet. I take the screws out after a session and it's stuck together so tightly, I have to wiggle wiggle wiggle to get them off. That fuse to mast connection is so solid.
Select to expand quoteTooMuchEpoxy said..Faff said..Powis said..Faff said..
All brands have good foils now, but some are victims of their own success and are stuck with bad connections.
I think Axis are seen as having a legacy thick connection. They used to have an even thicker system (red fuselage) and now almost completely superceded onto the black fuselage for a few years... perhaps they will go again soon to a slimmer attachment if they continue their trend. At least it is considered stiff and the drag may be compensated by the slim alu fuse (carbon systems like Code seem to be thicker to achieve same stiffness in fuselage)?
All foils where the mast is inserted into the fuse suffer from carbon wear. And the fewer connections the better. Only a few brands have this right.
Only if you ever disassemble your foil...I find the bolt torque i need to get a foil where i want it in terms of connection stiffness is so high taking apart a foil isn't practical. My foil goes together with a torque wrench and marine sealant when i buy it and comes apart when i sell it.
For me, riding prone in alot of challenging conditions, i find stiffness to be super critical. We've thankly solved the mast stiffness side of things but connection stiffness and fuse stiffness are still areas for improvement. The socket connection specifically, with a carbon molded mast component(not an aluminum adapter for corroion reasons) in a metal fuse socket (stainless or aluminum) is FANTASTIC. I'm running absolutely 0 connection movement right now with some HIGHLY loaded testing - testing that would make you very unhappy if i handled your foil like that - and thats just my on the beach about to grab a session want to feel my foil to make sure its OK testing.
I don't think what i'm running is the best for everyone but its the best for me - North SF 930 front, aluminum fuse(kicks the carbon fuses ass), and a broken high end mast that i custom fit to the fuse(made stainelsshardware inserts and poured thickend epoxy around the mast in the fuse cavity). I've got about $700 total invested in the setup and the stiffness is incredible. One clever thing that north did for the front wing connection thats really clever is the fuse has a concave surface and the wing is flat at the connection so the fasteners are flexing the wing at the connection and pre-loading the fibers which seems like it makes for a super stiff front wing conneciton despite being a rather simplistic design.
Same mast fuse socket design in carbon is garbage. Not stiff for use and/or crack in agressive use. Carbon is just not as good for that socket connection. Maybe the connections like the AFS are better in carbon than the socket but i find even independent of the connection movement there is a noticable increase in stiffness of the aluminum fuse vs the carbon.
For me, there's some subjective measures on wing shape etc. but i think those are up for opinion and, frankly, alot of brands are making a GOOD wing and having a good wing that hits the nail on the head in terms of size, AR, span, etc beats having the best wing design and its not the right size so don't be afraid to get a brand that suits you. To answer the original question if money were no object i'd be riding an omen 850. Metal fuse, tight socket, stiff mast, wings look good, carbon rear fuse (bonus - metal where you need it carbon where you don't)
Honestly thought i think the real answer is Mikes Lab mostly because this is the winging forum and having a nice foil only matters in winging when your racing! I wing on my surf foil these days only because i'm too lazy to switch my winging rig onto my prone board and not carrying it around saves room in my car. All things being equal i'd be winging on this piece of garbage Uni Vyper 150 ($150) on a 80cm scratched cedrus aluminum ($150) just to save wear and tear on my "nice" surf foil.
Also out of all the connection systems Armstrong is the worst!
Doesn't sealant make it easy to overtorque?
@ TooMuchEpoxy, I don,t agree on the ML stuff.I don,t race, just like to surf in the waves and bumps and love my AFS Silk, Pure and enduro foils. The UHM80 13.4mm mast has a way less less drag as my fomer Cedrus but I was shocked by how easy, fast and dragless on a whole new level the ML set up was. I did some lake riding on it and used the 700 in surf and think its the best set up I ever tried. On the downside its too fragile and too expensive for me and need an tuttlebox board that I don,t want but when I ever win the lottery I totally see me getting a set up like that over a nicer car.
Select to expand quoteFaff said..Powis said..Faff said..
All brands have good foils now, but some are victims of their own success and are stuck with bad connections.
I think Axis are seen as having a legacy thick connection. They used to have an even thicker system (red fuselage) and now almost completely superceded onto the black fuselage for a few years... perhaps they will go again soon to a slimmer attachment if they continue their trend. At least it is considered stiff and the drag may be compensated by the slim alu fuse (carbon systems like Code seem to be thicker to achieve same stiffness in fuselage)?
All foils where the mast is inserted into the fuse suffer from carbon wear. And the fewer connections the better. Only a few brands have this right.
Omen have the mast tapered with space at the bottom of the fuselage, this way as it wears it just fits tighter.
Select to expand quoteTaavi said..ruberoid said..
My experience is that the best foil is the one you are currently riding on. Once you are on it, it is brilliant.
Tavvi, do you know if any of the Sabfoil foils are good for Downwinding?
Exactly this! For now Sabfoil's Razor Pro is simply the best hahaa.
Select to expand quotemartyman said..Omen have the mast tapered with space at the bottom of the fuselage, this way as it wears it just fits tighter.
you must have deep pockets to ride Omen. US$5.5k plus tax and shipping 
Select to expand quotemartyman said..Taavi said..ruberoid said..
My experience is that the best foil is the one you are currently riding on. Once you are on it, it is brilliant.
Tavvi, do you know if any of the Sabfoil foils are good for Downwinding?
@martyman, I really don't know, depends on what kind of energy you have going on there I guess. Do you perhaps have a video of your conditions?
To give you some examples, here I am milking some short flights out of a razor pro 875 (ca 850 cm2), in really small and chaotic and irregular bumps, but I often found myself in a dead end, going up the wave.
Select to expand quotehilly said..martyman said..Omen have the mast tapered with space at the bottom of the fuselage, this way as it wears it just fits tighter.
you must have deep pockets to ride Omen. US$5.5k plus tax and shipping
no, i just know the right ppl lol
Select to expand quotehilly said..martyman said..Omen have the mast tapered with space at the bottom of the fuselage, this way as it wears it just fits tighter.
you must have deep pockets to ride Omen. US$5.5k plus tax and shipping
that can't be right. You can get a Mikeslab mast + 2 wingsets for less than that price, and still leave you will $700 to put towards a board.
...which is what you should do.
Select to expand quoteKyleT said..hilly said..martyman said..Omen have the mast tapered with space at the bottom of the fuselage, this way as it wears it just fits tighter.
you must have deep pockets to ride Omen. US$5.5k plus tax and shipping
that can't be right. You can get a Mikeslab mast + 2 wingsets for less than that price, and still leave you will $700 to put towards a board.
...which is what you should do.
Omen is pricey, but not that pricey.
$3500 USD.
Haven't tried them though.
You know how people say. Make the iPhone in the US, I'll pay the extra to get it! Turns out they won't :P Omen is made in USA. The mast is a collaboration with NoLimitz. Once you add in the upgraded mast for other brands, I'd say Omen is competitive. It only sounds excessive when you are comparing it to Aluminum kits.
A competing brands mast alone is $2672. Personally I think it's the best foil for me and the conditions I wing, out of anything else I've tried. The operator 1050 in Los Angeles is the only foil you need. But, people like change, they may not want to ride the same foil and be perfectly dialed in every session. :)
Select to expand quoteBWalnut said..Omen is pricey, but not that pricey.
$3500 USD.
Haven't tried them though.
this is the .com site
Select to expand quotehilly said..BWalnut said..Omen is pricey, but not that pricey.
$3500 USD.
Haven't tried them though.
this is the .com site
Is that USD tho? In the US that page shows $3500 USD.
Here's a used Omen set in the US for $1500 US. Crazy good deal. forum.progressionproject.com/t/omen-850-and-1050-with-800-mast/7381/2
Select to expand quoteHdip said..
Here's a used Omen set in the US for $1500 US. Crazy good deal. forum.progressionproject.com/t/omen-850-and-1050-with-800-mast/7381/2
thanks for the heads up- I tried- too late- it sold.
What about Duotone, is it not one of the biggest wing foil brand?
What are their innovativeness, quality, performance and price do you think?
Select to expand quoteSurfmad said..
What about Duotone, is it not one of the biggest wing foil brand?
What are their innovativeness, quality, performance and price do you think?
For winging any old foil is absolutely fine. A great foil can really shine prone or DW but winging doesn't matter nearly as much. I actually really hate the way my nice surf foil feels on wing and much prefer some old piece of crap.
i think all the big wing brands make some blah whatever foils to cash in on the fanboys who want their logos to match up and so the shops have
something to bundle but they don't really care because if they were going after the surf and DW
market by investing difficult and expensive R&D in good foils they would make as much profit in one year as they do from 2 weeks of selling wing dings.
Select to expand quoteTooMuchEpoxy said..
For winging any old foil is absolutely fine. A great foil can really shine prone or DW but winging doesn't matter nearly as much. I actually really hate the way my nice surf foil feels on wing and much prefer some old piece of crap.
It depends on how you wing I guess. My nice surf foil feels fabulous when winging, to the point where I wouldn't really want to ride with anything that does not feel as good, in every condition, be it in the waves or on flat water. Same foil in both clips below. I think it's a good test for the versatility of your setup if you can enjoy it everywhere.
Axis Fireball 1000 for me is best currently. Goes faster and slower than Artpro and glides farther in smaller sqcm. I feel like it is the equivalent of 4 of my other foils combined. Best bump connector I have known.
been looking closely at some AFs foils - might be a contender here worth investigating ..
Ok. Don't shoot me down on this, my humble opinion, but am really enjoying my- SPG (Signature Performance Gear- South Africa) Missiles. Easy to ride, smooth, love a bit of swell, quite quick. And importer on the Sunshine Coast (Robbie) is great to deal with.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
been looking closely at some AFs foils - might be a contender here worth investigating ..
the AFS Enduro 1300 is something special as far as "Big Wings" go
All things considering this one is the best current setup overall for me: (it's very personal/subjective though):
I had Axis for a long time including the latest other than the Fireball.
Now on Duotone Glide 2.0 which for me are a significant improvement in efficiency as I can foil much smaller foil wings for similar performance with increased Glide and smoothness etc
Second hand the Axis would have to be the best value with a huge range from which to choose.
Fun thread!
I've owned and tried a lot of foils (slingshot, naish, axis, f-one etc)
I now have two AFS Silks for waves and two Mikeslabs for speed and racing (ML700 & Bullet 6).
They are all brilliant at what they do. The Silks are next level turning and stability. The Mikeslab are next level frictionless with insane acceleration (the 700 turns great too).
All of them have a real plug and play / ease of use. And never do anything weird in extreme conditions (dropping fast down a swell, pushing to 29 knots etc).
So for me, since I've started wingfoiling these are the best foils I have ever used.
Select to expand quoteJeroensurf said..
I did some lake riding on it and used the 700 in surf and think its the best set up I ever tried. On the downside its too fragile and too expensive for me and need an tuttlebox board that I don,t want but when I ever win the lottery I totally see me getting a set up like that over a nicer car.
Jeroen My Mikeslab mast is a plate mount. Stef makes them if you ask (but I guess you have to ask). ML are also not that much more $$$$ than AFS... maybe that is your next foil.
I want a shorter mast for my 700 next (the 102 is great for speed / racing but not for surf)
