Select to expand quoteThatspec said..
Sheps,
Is anyone on Maui actually using the BRM for multi mile upwind then downwind sessions or is everyone just driving upwind like always? I.E. is it reasonable to expect to be able to go upwind for miles through the 3 meter+ swell I'm dealing with on a daily basis?
Not easy even with 2.5 - 3.5 wings. Everyone here has dumped their paddles because of logistics and the fact that downwinding with a 2.5 is such a non-issue (...and swing'in the big board around sucks). The parawing is the perfect solution if it actually works.
I've got a 3M Roger showing up in January regardless. The Flow really looks the most stable of all of them so far and that Russian POS the least. The Ensis is all we can get here...
I would only consider DW if there was no swell. If there is swell I ride that. I do the upwind downwind runs when we have no swell but 20 knot Seabreeze in the afternoon so the bumps build up. After years of kite and sup downwind runs the logistics really annoy me. Yep first world problem I know, the parawing may just remove the last hassle of a wing when you are going straight downwind which is annoying no matter the size. Benefits of smaller foil and board are pluses. Also no danger of popping the wing with your foil if you crash. Could be an interesting journey or there will be a 4.2 parawing for sale soon 
Flow will send overseas.
Select to expand quotehilly said..Thatspec said..
Sheps,
Is anyone on Maui actually using the BRM for multi mile upwind then downwind sessions or is everyone just driving upwind like always? I.E. is it reasonable to expect to be able to go upwind for miles through the 3 meter+ swell I'm dealing with on a daily basis?
Not easy even with 2.5 - 3.5 wings. Everyone here has dumped their paddles because of logistics and the fact that downwinding with a 2.5 is such a non-issue (...and swing'in the big board around sucks). The parawing is the perfect solution if it actually works.
I've got a 3M Roger showing up in January regardless. The Flow really looks the most stable of all of them so far and that Russian POS the least. The Ensis is all we can get here...
I would only consider DW if there was no swell. If there is swell I ride that. I do the upwind downwind runs when we have no swell but 20 knot Seabreeze in the afternoon so the bumps build up. After years of kite and sup downwind runs the logistics really annoy me. Yep first world problem I know, the parawing may just remove the last hassle of a wing when you are going straight downwind which is annoying no matter the size. Benefits of smaller foil and board are pluses. Also no danger of popping the wing with your foil if you crash. Could be an interesting journey or there will be a 4.2 parawing for sale soon
Flow will send overseas.
Hey Thatspec I agree with Hilly, so many advantages. 3 miles isn't too far to go upwind. I've kite foiled since the beginning then winged for ages and I can say with confidence that I'm going upwind better on a parawing, particularly on my toeside better than I can on a regular wing. I'd say if you can do it with a regular wing then you can do it even more easily with a parawing once you are fully competent. They are light wind weapons too. Not to mention coming to shore in heavy shore breaks is way easier. I could go on..just so good. At the end of the day, I don't like the logistics of all the car movements. Done kite dw and the traffic became too much after a while. Not doing that again too often. Good news is I don't have to with the parawing.
Select to expand quoteHey Thatspec I agree with Hilly, so many advantages. 3 miles isn't too far to go upwind. I've kite foiled since the beginning then winged for ages and I can say with confidence that I'm going upwind better on a parawing, particularly on my toeside better than I can on a regular wing. I'd say if you can do it with a regular wing then you can do it even more easily with a parawing once you are fully competent. They are light wind weapons too. Not to mention coming to shore in heavy shore breaks is way easier. I could go on..just so good. At the end of the day, I don't like the logistics of all the car movements. Done kite dw and the traffic became too much after a while. Not doing that again too often. Good news is I don't have to with the parawing.
I agree with all of this. To add heavy shore breaks are a lot easier both coming in and going out.
I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with supfoil downwind. I'm not the strongest paddler and I've had injury issues. Also the logistics are too challenging for me to really put a lot of time into. Even with favourable logistics it's pretty much a 4hr round trip for a downwinder that is probably about 40 mins of foiling time max. And once you get to the end of the run that's it. The end location of the DW I do is nice wave riding spot. So at least when I was doing it with a wing I could carry on for another hour or so riding waves at the end of the DW and really get some good watertime. Now with the parawing, the option of doing that opens up again. There's also the option for kitesurf-style wave riding downwinders which involve riding the waves closer to shore then tacking back out, and generally making your way downwind at leisure rather than point-to-point.
I'd say the parawing is still a little more challenging than a regular wing, but the gap in both difficulty and performance is shrinking. I feel like I can get pretty much the same angles as I was getting with the wing. I feel I have the same freedom of the terrain.
Yesterday I tried taking my old 4'6" soap bar wingboard out for the first time. I was surprised how easily I got going on it and how comfortable I was doing things like getting to my feet in pretty decent bumpy conditions, though admittedly it was really good wind.
The small board is a gamechanger - apart from the delight of riding swell downwind a tiny board - this is a setup you can take a few miles upwind in any Uber. With a 8' sup DW board there's always the anxiety of travelling with it. With the inflatable wing, theres the question of the pump which is pretty much intractable. So there are options for logistics that aren't available anyhow else.
For me personally, over the years winging, I have learned the tidal spots where the bumps are amazing for a zone given a wind direction and tide flow. Now with the PW, I'm able to target those same zones, but really get that free riding feeling I'm after. My last 1 hour session I did 7 laps. After each lap I was pretty gassed and it was nice to recoup on the way back to the top.
This also reminds me of 'Earning your turns' snowboarding in the back country, skinning up the mountain, except this part is relaxing using the wind.
I'm not about to do a long 3 mile upwind downwind if there is a portion of the run that has much better bumps than the rest. 
Select to expand quoteSheps said..hilly said..Thatspec said..
Sheps,
Is anyone on Maui actually using the BRM for multi mile upwind then downwind sessions or is everyone just driving upwind like always? I.E. is it reasonable to expect to be able to go upwind for miles through the 3 meter+ swell I'm dealing with on a daily basis?
Not easy even with 2.5 - 3.5 wings. Everyone here has dumped their paddles because of logistics and the fact that downwinding with a 2.5 is such a non-issue (...and swing'in the big board around sucks). The parawing is the perfect solution if it actually works.
I've got a 3M Roger showing up in January regardless. The Flow really looks the most stable of all of them so far and that Russian POS the least. The Ensis is all we can get here...
I would only consider DW if there was no swell. If there is swell I ride that. I do the upwind downwind runs when we have no swell but 20 knot Seabreeze in the afternoon so the bumps build up. After years of kite and sup downwind runs the logistics really annoy me. Yep first world problem I know, the parawing may just remove the last hassle of a wing when you are going straight downwind which is annoying no matter the size. Benefits of smaller foil and board are pluses. Also no danger of popping the wing with your foil if you crash. Could be an interesting journey or there will be a 4.2 parawing for sale soon
Flow will send overseas.
Hey Thatspec I agree with Hilly, so many advantages. 3 miles isn't too far to go upwind. I've kite foiled since the beginning then winged for ages and I can say with confidence that I'm going upwind better on a parawing, particularly on my toeside better than I can on a regular wing. I'd say if you can do it with a regular wing then you can do it even more easily with a parawing once you are fully competent. They are light wind weapons too. Not to mention coming to shore in heavy shore breaks is way easier. I could go on..just so good. At the end of the day, I don't like the logistics of all the car movements. Done kite dw and the traffic became too much after a while. Not doing that again too often. Good news is I don't have to with the parawing.
Thanks for the insights guys!
Really looking forward to getting thrashed again learning something new
...and StephenZ, I like the "soap bar" reference, we've always referred to them as "pizza box" style boards.
Select to expand quotehilly said..ArthurAlston said..Youngbreezy said..
www.facebook.com/share/v/19n5R2BBMn/?mibextid=oKfgLb
Dimitry Evseev giving it a good go on a parawing in Mauritius
Amazing footage.
Russian parawing?? How do they have time for sh1t like that aren't they too busy bombing Ukraine?
All the military aged blokes who can, have pissed off. No one with half a brain want's to get sucked into that death trap.
He compared a single run for each, and it looked really close to me. Another thing to consider is that stability may come at the cost of depower range. On single skin kites you keep the canopy stable with line tension. A tensioned canopy will provide more power. Took a bit to get used to my old peaks fluttering away when depowered but it sure was nice to have the depower range. I suspect the BRM with the bridle mod will have more depower range then the Flow. You get used to the trim and only go into that unstable mode when needed. More technical to fly no doubt but it's nice to have more depower range. Looks like it may have more bridles as well, or atleast more complicated bridles. Same thing with the Ensis Roger which also looks like it has more complex bridles. Would like to see a side by side comparison though to confirm. In the end I want to add a smaller parawing to my quiver and I will likely pick a lowered priced option if Greg doesn't lower the price to match.
OK, so just to play devils advocate here for a minute. It would be possible to tune a parawing to fly solely off the front lines with complete stability and it may still sit further back in "the window" than parawing B that requires a small amount of tension on the B & C lines.
That does no appear to be the case here though we have only one source for comparison. Time will tell.
When I first started kitesurfing (1997), I was teaching paragliding and we imported one particular brand that started making foil kites. I desperately wanted those things to work and just knew they would be better than those dumb ass inflatables. I swam sooo much
They just wouldn't fly far enough forward in the window to stay upwind, tuned too slow. Not the cause of the swimming of course but lesson learned.
OK, curiosity got the better of me and I did some analysis on the bridle configuration on the Flow vs the BRM. BRM uses 6 front bridles vs the Flow which uses 8 front bridles. (did not compare the middle and rear) The BRM bridle configuration also seems to rely on less of the short bridles which start closer to the canopy. This trade off my contribute to the higher stability on the canopy, particularly while depowered, but it also increases your risk of tangles and the complexity of detangling the lines which is not a ton of fun to do on the water.
Everything is a trade off, looking forward to seeing more of these on the water so we can compare in person. And really appreciate the detailed video reviews. Keep the content coming, its much appreciated.
My issue is that I'd really like to just have a 4.2m for the packed down size however our comfortable wind range locally is usually 12-18knots. Above that then it gets really messy getting in & out over the boulders & shorebreak - no nice sandy beach or sheltered harbour mouth.
I was hoping I could get away with using my long DW board & big foil to compensate with the reduced kite size (I love winging them & often choose them over my midlength & HA foil as they're so much fun) I've heard different accounts saying longer boards aren't that good for parawings as they don't have that initial resistance to the wing when starting & get tangled up easier when sitting down starting.
Any feedback from those that know?
Select to expand quoteYoungbreezy said..
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Nice comparison video of the BRM and Flow Dwing. Definitely looks like the flow goes upwind a lot better and depowers a lot better.BRM definitely easier to stow.
I am liking the look of the flow, looks like a good proper wing shape. My main attraction to parawing would be to do the same upwind downwind riding I do on the wing but better( hopefully). Being able to go upwind well and depower well would make it so much easier and more enjoyable to do, could be worth sacrificing a bit of stow ability
I appreciate the video but I'd preferred to have seen a comparison of the two going upwind USING A HARNESS! Man anyone serious about going upwind has to so body is in correct position and the pull of the kite is transferred through it. When doing so I tend to do very little power adjustments with the kite and use board and body position to control gusts. I feel the 4m is still on the large side. Over here in WA I use a 2.9m mostly and 4m for lighter wind (70kg rider). Would love a 1.8m for above 25 knots although the 2.9m is ok even for a bit more but not ideal. Getting better at starting on smaller kites allows you to be on the correct size for riding, thus handling gusts with the correct skills is a breeze. Then you can enjoy the small package for pack down as a bonus, not to mention jibing with a supremely light kite in low wind is just incredible. I just wanted to get out there that larger and heavier kites are to be avoided where possible and the focus for me at least is to pack down easily whilst still being able to rocket upwind. Maliko already does this for me. Happy days.
Select to expand quoteCFL Foiler said..
OK, curiosity got the better of me and I did some analysis on the bridle configuration on the Flow vs the BRM. BRM uses 6 front bridles vs the Flow which uses 8 front bridles. (did not compare the middle and rear) The BRM bridle configuration also seems to rely on less of the short bridles which start closer to the canopy. This trade off my contribute to the higher stability on the canopy, particularly while depowered, but it also increases your risk of tangles and the complexity of detangling the lines which is not a ton of fun to do on the water.
Everything is a trade off, looking forward to seeing more of these on the water so we can compare in person. And really appreciate the detailed video reviews. Keep the content coming, its much appreciated.
The total length of all lines will ultimately be significantly reduced and replaced with small bits of fabric cross bracing. Race paragliders have only two main lines per side. The lines create a huge amount of drag, thus unsheathed lines are used. The tangling issues is greatly reduced (and is a non issue anyway after your first day), especially if A, B and C lines are different colors.
Stability is more a factor of the shape.
Much as I'd prefer to have the Flow, I'm going with simple, cheap and easy to get for my area until a few generations of these have passed. If I was in the US I'd buy the BRM. If I was in OZ I'd buy the Flow.
Anyone in the US, could you post your experience with customs duties, etc?
They responded back that atleast the 3m version will be shipping by the end of January, I didn't ask about the other sizes.
agree that bridle tangles are not an everyday issue, but all it takes is one foil breach at the wrong time and you will be sorting bridles. The simpilar the bridle design the easier to detangle and less likely the tangles will occur. So far the BRM has been very easy to deal with, except for when I discovered I shouldn't be using a coil leash.
Select to expand quoteThatspec said..
Anyone in the US, could you post your experience with customs duties, etc?
I have bought many times from overseas. Horue, back in the day, when they were the only source. Gong in the early days for kite foils. Never paid any import duties. Back when the Foil Drive had to be ordered direct, FedEx hit me with a paper work fee of about $20.
Select to expand quoteThatspec said..
Anyone in the US, could you post your experience with customs duties, etc?
Mixed experiences on duties for sure. When I order wings from Canada I usually get hit for $100 or so in duties. My worst experience was custom boards from Australia though. 3 custom prototypes showed up that weren't paid for, just protos. Duty officers wouldn't release them without a value though so I just blurted out that boards are about 2k each so 6k in total value. They smacked me with a $1300 duty fee to release the boards ?? then when I popped the box open at home I found they were all melted/destroyed.
There's definitely places to find the duty fees but it's confusing who pays them when and why. All my customs from Sunova show up with all duties paid, so it's company to company I think.
I emailed flow paragliders trying to get a 4.2 D wing yesterday, I was hoping to get one sent straight away. They said the first production is sold out and they will be shipping the next batch at the end of January. The special price $1200 applies to all sizes and is available until January 31st.
I might give it a week or 2 before I pull the trigger definitely pretty keen on the flow. I have no experience with either but liking the look of the more solid wing shape and obviously price and availability in OZ.
Also seen" foil rat" the guy that made those YouTube videos is selling his BRM so I guess he's pretty keen on the flow
Maybe we're making this more complicated than it needs to be.
Almost anything will work...
Select to expand quotefoilthegreats said..
ON MAKANI:onkiteboarding.com/collections/parawing
Price is right but looks like nothing more than a rendering.
Select to expand quoteYoungbreezy said..
I emailed flow paragliders trying to get a 4.2 D wing yesterday, I was hoping to get one sent straight away. They said the first production is sold out and they will be shipping the next batch at the end of January. The special price $1200 applies to all sizes and is available until January 31st.
I might give it a week or 2 before I pull the trigger definitely pretty keen on the flow. I have no experience with either but liking the look of the more solid wing shape and obviously price and availability in OZ.
Also seen" foil rat" the guy that made those YouTube videos is selling his BRM so I guess he's pretty keen on the flow
Hoping to try one soon actually. Local guy was ripping on one the other day.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..foilthegreats said..
ON MAKANI:onkiteboarding.com/collections/parawing
Price is right but looks like nothing more than a rendering.
Click on the rendered pictures and you see a page for each wing with a couple more photos. The text on each page is the same but there's a couple of different photos on each one.
onkiteboarding.com/collections/parawing/products/parafly
onkiteboarding.com/collections/parawing/products/parafly-4m
onkiteboarding.com/collections/parawing/products/parafly-6m
Where other brands have gone for the traditional lower lines at the bar splitting into forked galleries, these guys have a single line at the bar for each canopy attachment point. There's something like 20 A-lines.
That density of lines makes for a big "fence" to stop the canopy passing through, but potentially a nightmare to untangle.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..Youngbreezy said..
I emailed flow paragliders trying to get a 4.2 D wing yesterday, I was hoping to get one sent straight away. They said the first production is sold out and they will be shipping the next batch at the end of January. The special price $1200 applies to all sizes and is available until January 31st.
I might give it a week or 2 before I pull the trigger definitely pretty keen on the flow. I have no experience with either but liking the look of the more solid wing shape and obviously price and availability in OZ.
Also seen" foil rat" the guy that made those YouTube videos is selling his BRM so I guess he's pretty keen on the flow
Hoping to try one soon actually. Local guy was ripping on one the other day.
Cool was he on a flow parawing? Was he in the waves or downwind?
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..Grantmac said..foilthegreats said..
ON MAKANI:onkiteboarding.com/collections/parawing
Price is right but looks like nothing more than a rendering.
Click on the rendered pictures and you see a page for each wing with a couple more photos. The text on each page is the same but there's a couple of different photos on each one.
onkiteboarding.com/collections/parawing/products/parafly
onkiteboarding.com/collections/parawing/products/parafly-4m
onkiteboarding.com/collections/parawing/products/parafly-6m
Where other brands have gone for the traditional lower lines at the bar splitting into forked galleries, these guys have a single line at the bar for each canopy attachment point. There's something like 20 A-lines.
That density of lines makes for a big "fence" to stop the canopy passing through, but potentially a nightmare to untangle.
It says this in the description "One of the standout features of the ON MAKANI is its convenient folding mechanism, which allows you to stow it away easily when you want to ride"
I can't see anything that explains the folding mechanism on their website. I wonder what they have come up with?
Local dude got the Roger here. Had a fly and watched his first session. Not pretty in really gusty offshore winds. Edit I know that sounds all wrong
Select to expand quoteYoungbreezy said..Gorgo said..Grantmac said..foilthegreats said..
ON MAKANI:onkiteboarding.com/collections/parawing
Price is right but looks like nothing more than a rendering.
Click on the rendered pictures and you see a page for each wing with a couple more photos. The text on each page is the same but there's a couple of different photos on each one.
onkiteboarding.com/collections/parawing/products/parafly
onkiteboarding.com/collections/parawing/products/parafly-4m
onkiteboarding.com/collections/parawing/products/parafly-6m
Where other brands have gone for the traditional lower lines at the bar splitting into forked galleries, these guys have a single line at the bar for each canopy attachment point. There's something like 20 A-lines.
That density of lines makes for a big "fence" to stop the canopy passing through, but potentially a nightmare to untangle.
It says this in the description "One of the standout features of the ON MAKANI is its convenient folding mechanism, which allows you to stow it away easily when you want to ride"
I can't see anything that explains the folding mechanism on their website. I wonder what they have come up with?
Pity it is not called the Mankini 
