Select to expand quotefangman said..
Having worked at the coalface for a few decades I feel I can add a couple of points here.
Sodium bicarbonate mouthwash is fab. I could fill a page with the 'why' but simply put, it works. Do it!
Unless you actually have a bacterial imbalance or gum disease, antibacterial mouthwashes are of limited use and mainly just a triumph of the marketing division. (Ones with alcohol are probably worse.) For good oral health you want as many of the good bugs in your gob as possible. They will help keep the bad boys under control. Antibacterial mouthwashes just napalm everything, which is good when you are over-run with the bad boys, but not required when things are pretty stable. Bad bugs tend to form colonies in the dark corners, don't like to be disturbed, and make slimy protective domes which are really quite good at resisting chemical attacks. The good guys tend to just be floating around and just chillin' . They get smashed by chemicals. For a healthy gob, just keep disrupting and dislodging the bad colonies with a floss/interdental brush and, in most people, the biota will shift toward the good guys. Use whatever paste you want, it's not that important. I should add that unless you have gum disease, most of the bad breath bugs live on your tongue, so lots of fibre in your diet and a good scrape is the plan.
R/O (reverse osmosis) is required to remove Fluoride from water.
Drinking R/O long term is not recommended. You are a big bag of salty water with some minerals and stuff. If you drink pure water the osmotic pressure drives the minerals out of your body fluids and into your intestine in order to restore the balance. Long term there is a risk of mineral deficiency if you don't take steps to replace the mineral loss. Your large intestine and kidneys are awesome at recovering minerals from your waste, but eventually the ion exchange mechanisms can no longer keep robbing Peter to pay Paul and you lose minerals.
Fluoride benefits teeth mostly when they are being formed and maturing, but has shown benefits at all ages of life for all mineralised tissues. Again, I could stuff a whole page in here, but probably should just use a meme. Probs not going to change anyone's belief system on the benefits vs risks so won't prattle on.
Your genetics (natural defence mechanisms), diet, and your ability to clean BETWEEN your teeth are major determinants of your dental health. FN's point is valid because many of the patients I saw that had gum and cardio issues also had a veritable list of co-morbitities. Generally, they were just rubbish at looking after their health regardless of orifice or organ and nailing down the original pathway for disease was almost a moot point.
Gum inflammation results in elevated levels of an inflammatory marker called C reactive protein. You can Google Scholar the relationship between this and cardiac disease. Use the Cochrane library reviews to get the gold standard research. (It's free to Australians).
The highest density of dentists per population in Aus are in areas with unfluoridated water.
And finally some anecdotal gold stuff too. I worked for WAHealth as a dentist in the Kimberley and Gibson desert. I visited the various Aboriginal reserves/camps/settlements to provide a modicum of dental care. Some of this camps had naturally fluoridated water.(luckily, at almost the ideal rate.) Very few of the inhabitants of any of these places had any sort of relationship with a toothbrush. They all had tuck shops selling sugary crap and junk. In the unfluoridated camps it was a car smash of oral disease and a nasty business most of the time. In the fluoridated camps I was done in a day.
Now, did I mention Bicarb mouthwashes?
You and your dang education and new fangled experience.
On a similar note...
Questioning Science
The arguments used by organizations to delay adoption of GR often resemble the arguments of anti-vaccination groups, including those protesting vaccines to protect against COVID-19. Some of the opponents of GR and agricultural biotechnology more generally see the introduction of [Golden Rice] GR as forcing the consumption of GMOs on the population. However, for the case of GR, consumers have the option of easily avoiding consumption because GR is very easily identifiable by its color.
The tragedy of GR is that regulatory delays of approval have immense costs in terms of preventable deaths, with no apparent benefit. The approval of GR is even more urgent with the ongoing pandemic, which has made access to healthcare services more difficult in vulnerable populations worldwide. The World Bank has recommended that micronutrient biofortification of staple crops, including specifically GR, should be the norm and not the exception in crop breeding.
Golden rice can effectively control VAD. Delaying the uptake of a genetically modified product shown to have clear health benefits has and will cost numerous lives, frequently of the most vulnerable individuals. Policymakers must find ways to overcome this resistance and accelerate the introduction and adoption of Golden Rice.
www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2120901118
Select to expand quotefangman
Fluoride benefits teeth mostly when they are being formed and maturing, but has shown benefits at all ages of life for all mineralised tissues. Again, I could stuff a whole page in here, but probably should just use a meme. Probs not going to change anyone's belief system on the benefits vs risks so won't prattle on.
Actually. I'm open to changing my belief system on this one. I'm considering not having a water filter on the next house just because of your comments. One of my kids doesn't like to brush her teeth properly.
So yes. Please do prattle on. I'll be reading it all with great interest.
Select to expand quoteremery said..
On a similar note...
Questioning Science
The arguments used by organizations to delay adoption of GR often resemble the arguments of anti-vaccination groups, including those protesting vaccines to protect against COVID-19. Some of the opponents of GR and agricultural biotechnology more generally see the introduction of [Golden Rice] GR as forcing the consumption of GMOs on the population. However, for the case of GR, consumers have the option of easily avoiding consumption because GR is very easily identifiable by its color.
The tragedy of GR is that regulatory delays of approval have immense costs in terms of preventable deaths, with no apparent benefit. The approval of GR is even more urgent with the ongoing pandemic, which has made access to healthcare services more difficult in vulnerable populations worldwide. The World Bank has recommended that micronutrient biofortification of staple crops, including specifically GR, should be the norm and not the exception in crop breeding.
Golden rice can effectively control VAD. Delaying the uptake of a genetically modified product shown to have clear health benefits has and will cost numerous lives, frequently of the most vulnerable individuals. Policymakers must find ways to overcome this resistance and accelerate the introduction and adoption of Golden Rice.
www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2120901118
No! Those people never should have been born. Free vasectomies for everyone.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..
Actually. I'm open to changing my belief system on this one. I'm considering not having a water filter on the next house just because of your comments. One of my kids doesn't like to brush her teeth properly.
So yes. Please do prattle on. I'll be reading it all with great interest.
I think you are starting to get it. Science is not a belief system. Science does not have the answers, but it at least strives to find them.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..
Actually. I'm open to changing my belief system on this one. I'm considering not having a water filter on the next house just because of your comments. One of my kids doesn't like to brush her teeth properly.
So yes. Please do prattle on. I'll be reading it all with great interest.
Prattle v1
To the best of my knowledge, the vast majority of water filters won't remove fluoride from the water supply, hence the need for R/O. I still have an old work R/O unit at home and it is used daily for all sorts of stuff that is better done with pure water, so PJ, I wouldn't ditch the idea of a filter or R/O.
I am not sure where to start on the fluoride and tooth enamel stuff. Some background info perhaps? The enamel on your teeth is a rod like structure and looks like a packet of pasta viewed end on when viewed under magnification. If you could imagine a washing line full of footy socks lined up together, and each of those socks stuffed with quartz pebbles that's pretty close.
As your teeth form beneath your gums, the sock is laid down to act as formwork and then the grano-worker cells come along and dump a quartz like substance into each sock. Fluoride works by substituting into the 'quartz' filler and making it harder and more acid resistant. Once the tooth erupts into your mouth the grano-workers are done and dusted and no more quartz can be added. (Which is why you can't grow enamel back as an adult)
Except, nature is a bit clever and has added some more layers of defence. The enamel on a freshly erupted tooth is not fully mineralised/saturated, so you if you soak the surface in a mineralised solution the tooth will absorb more minerals. As Mrs Marsh said, the fluoride really does get in.
Hence fluoridated water and toothpaste is really helpful in strengthening freshly erupted teeth.
You can't overstuff the sock with pebbles. So as you age the benefit of F on tooth enamel reduces. However, the pebbles can be eaten out of the sock by acids. As long as you don't damage the sock you can top up the pebbles again if the environment is not acidic. Bicarb creates an environment where your saliva can get on with remineralising much sooner and faster. Toothpaste minerals can be good in this regard too.
You can damage the sock framework when it's not supported by pebbles. You cannot regrow the sock framework. So if you damage the sock, you can't replace any pebbles. (Pebbles are lost to acid attack). It's really important not to damage the sock framework. For example, when you have a spew and coat your teeth in stomach acid, the worst thing you can do is brush your teeth as the sock will be brushed away. Instead, rinse your mouth to get rid of the acid, again bicarb rinse is awesome here. Give the saliva a good half hour to repair/replenish the pebbles in the sock. Toothpaste is a good source of pebble minerals for repair too.
This applies anytime you bathe your teeth in acid - eg fizzy and sports drinks. I should add, that when you feed the bad bugs sugars, they form colonies know as plaque and churn out acid directly onto the enamel below -> decay is the result.
Congrats to the scrollers, here is the abstract: At any age F helps strengthen the surface layer of enamel against acid attack, but more so on freshly erupted teeth. Take special care to repair your teeth after bathing them in food additive acids.
PJ (assuming you made it this far) is this at all helpful?
I may as well add my own meaningless anecdote.
I drink far too much soft drink. Yet when I go to the dentist I often get the comment that I clearly don't drink soft drinks. When I tell them the reality, they then say 'you must have good saliva'. I have had this comment enough to think that soft drink is clearly bad for teeth.
Beats me whether it is the fluoride from childhood, good saliva, or a bit of both. But going on a hunch, I think the saliva production somehow has helped me out with this. I guess it may help that in adulthood I have brushed regularly, so I expect that helps.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
I may as well add my own meaningless anecdote.
I drink far too much soft drink. Yet when I go to the dentist I often get the comment that I clearly don't drink soft drinks. When I tell them the reality, they then say 'you must have good saliva'. I have had this comment enough to think that soft drink is clearly bad for teeth.
Beats me whether it is the fluoride from childhood, good saliva, or a bit of both. But going on a hunch, I think the saliva production somehow has helped me out with this. I guess it may help that in adulthood I have brushed regularly, so I expect that helps.
And thank your Mum. Good protective genes, and the bugs she transferred from her to you during infant feeding year were good guys by the sounds.
Select to expand quoteremery said..
Bummer for the people who avoid fluoride, masks and vaccination. Darwinism at its finest.
Still on the Kool aid i see.
Till the end no doubt.
Select to expand quoteremery said..psychojoe said..
Actually. I'm open to changing my belief system on this one. I'm considering not having a water filter on the next house just because of your comments. One of my kids doesn't like to brush her teeth properly.
So yes. Please do prattle on. I'll be reading it all with great interest.
I think you are starting to get it. Science is not a belief system. Science does not have the answers, but it at least strives to find them.
Science is very much a belief system.
Up till the point when a theory is proven fact, its a belief. The separation from other belief systems is that scientists then set out to prove their belief to be fact.
Don't get me wrong, it's probably the most important belief system for the human race to have, but with news and media being so prevalent these days, its very easy for scientific theories to become widely accepted as fact, with or without intention. Probably starts out stated correctly as theory, inject some chinese whispers into the equation and voila, misinformation (isn't that what it's called these days?) Of course, theres also going to be the odd brave scientist, or brethren who will happily jump in front of a microphone and state what they believe (theorise) without first proving it, but hey, they're a scientist, so must be right, right?
Select to expand quotefangman said..psychojoe said..
Actually. I'm open to changing my belief system on this one. I'm considering not having a water filter on the next house just because of your comments. One of my kids doesn't like to brush her teeth properly.
So yes. Please do prattle on. I'll be reading it all with great interest.
Prattle v1 To the best of my knowledge, the vast majority of water filters won't remove fluoride from the water supply, hence the need for R/O. I still have an old work R/O unit at home and it is used daily for all sorts of stuff that is better done with pure water, so PJ, I wouldn't ditch the idea of a filter or R/O.
I am not sure where to start on the fluoride and tooth enamel stuff. Some background info perhaps? The enamel on your teeth is a rod like structure and looks like a packet of pasta viewed end on when viewed under magnification. If you could imagine a washing line full of footy socks lined up together, and each of those socks stuffed with quartz pebbles that's pretty close.
As your teeth form beneath your gums, the sock is laid down to act as formwork and then the grano-worker cells come along and dump a quartz like substance into each sock. Fluoride works by substituting into the 'quartz' filler and making it harder and more acid resistant. Once the tooth erupts into your mouth the grano-workers are done and dusted and no more quartz can be added. (Which is why you can't grow enamel back as an adult)
Except, nature is a bit clever and has added some more layers of defence. The enamel on a freshly erupted tooth is not fully mineralised/saturated, so you if you soak the surface in a mineralised solution the tooth will absorb more minerals. As Mrs Marsh said, the fluoride really does get in.
Hence fluoridated water and toothpaste is really helpful in strengthening freshly erupted teeth.
You can't overstuff the sock with pebbles. So as you age the benefit of F on tooth enamel reduces. However, the pebbles can be eaten out of the sock by acids. As long as you don't damage the sock you can top up the pebbles again if the environment is not acidic. Bicarb creates an environment where your saliva can get on with remineralising much sooner and faster. Toothpaste minerals can be good in this regard too.
You can damage the sock framework when it's not supported by pebbles. You cannot regrow the sock framework. So if you damage the sock, you can't replace any pebbles. (Pebbles are lost to acid attack). It's really important not to damage the sock framework. For example, when you have a spew and coat your teeth in stomach acid, the worst thing you can do is brush your teeth as the sock will be brushed away. Instead, rinse your mouth to get rid of the acid, again bicarb rinse is awesome here. Give the saliva a good half hour to repair/replenish the pebbles in the sock. Toothpaste is a good source of pebble minerals for repair too.
This applies anytime you bathe your teeth in acid - eg fizzy and sports drinks. I should add, that when you feed the bad bugs sugars, they form colonies know as plaque and churn out acid directly onto the enamel below -> decay is the result.
Congrats to the scrollers, here is the abstract: At any age F helps strengthen the surface layer of enamel against acid attack, but more so on freshly erupted teeth. Take special care to repair your teeth after bathing them in food additive acids.
PJ (assuming you made it this far) is this at all helpful?
Very helpful so far.
So maybe the kids should stick with a flouride toothpaste, and I can switch to the probiotic toothpaste.
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..remery said..
Bummer for the people who avoid fluoride, masks and vaccination. Darwinism at its finest.
Still on the Kool aid i see.
Till the end no doubt.
'Flavor-aid', and the saying is inspired by a religious guy telling his people to believe him and that they would go to heaven by drinking and dying. Doesn't sound like science to me.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..
Very helpful so far.
So maybe the kids should stick with a flouride toothpaste, and I can switch to the probiotic toothpaste.
I don't know anything about the *probiotics toothpaste - I finished my time over a decade ago - but I have seen elders do a really good job with charcoal.
In any case, the bugs you do want, tend to be free floating and not colony forming. The bad bugs form colonies on surfaces. To stop decay you just have to keep physically messing up the colonies by knocking them off the surfaces that aren't cleaned by chewing - tooth gumline and in-between. We used to say, It's the motion not the potion.
As per previous post^, F toothpaste is good, but unless you have an imbalance of bugs avoid any with antiseptics like triclosan - you will just be killing off the good guys. (I suspect you are already on to this, but ignore the marketing BS about explosions of whatever in your gob when you use their product, it's not a good thing unless you already have a mouth full of bad bugs) As a side note: Natural yoghurt is obvi full of good bugs and has all the advantages of all the dairy minerals and goodies too. The local mob, Mundella is my fav.
* I am a complete tightarse with my $, so I would want to know how many live bacteria (and what strains) there are in the toothpaste by the time I use it, what have they put in the paste to keep the bugs fed while in the tube, and also links to the evidence base for benefits.
Regardless of if or if not fluoride helps your teeth, people are overlooking the amounts of tap water that go into our food production like bread.
Fluoride doesn't evaporate out when it's boiled, it instead concentrates as the water boils away.
Is it safe to drink pure fluoride?
How much poison is ok then?
If you ask a dentist they will tell you fluoride is good for you because they care for teeth.
If you ask a toxicologist if fluoride is good for you you will likely get a different answer.
If someone says fluoride is good for you hand them a glass of pure fluoride and see if they are prepared to drink it.
Google "What was fluoride originally used for"
The first use of adding fluoride to drinking water was undertaken by the Nazi party who added it to the drinking water of the ghettos and prison camps. They found through human experimentation that fluoride actually made people more docile and subservient as well as sterilizing them.
Sounds similar to what governments want today,
depopulation and subservient slaves.
The sugar industry and the aluminium industry lobbied governments to put fluoride into water supplies.
The sugar industry lobbied for fluoride to be added to water supplies because governments were considering regulating the food industry to reduce sugar intake and reduce health care costs. The aluminium Industry were concerned about being sued due to fluoride pollution run off and funded a fraudulent study to make out fluoride has health benefits that would allow them to sell their byproduct (fluoride) to governments to put in town water.
It was a win win, they actually get paid to polite the environment by selling the waste for us to drink.
Fluoride added to our tap water is not the type of fluoride used at the dentist's office and in toothpaste (sodium fluoride), but is rather a form of industrial waste called hydrofluorosilicic acid.
Is it ok for government for force medicate a population?
Nuremberg.
The ppm dose versus benefit curve is well known for fluoride. More is not better.
Pure oxygen is toxic, pure water is toxic. Reducto ad absurdum arguments rarely hold.
Fact sheet here for WA Health Dept water supply F here: fsfhg.health.wa.gov.au/Healthy-WA/Articles/F_I/Fluoride-facts-for-Western-Australia
"...Drinking water delivered to consumers contains the fluoride ion, but it does not contain any sodium fluoride, sodium fluorosilicate or fluorosilicic acid itself."
Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..I think you are starting to get it. Science is not a belief system. Science does not have the answers, but it at least strives to find them.
Science is very much a belief system.
Up till the point when a theory is proven fact, its a belief. The separation from other belief systems is that scientists then set out to prove their belief to be fact.
Don't get me wrong, it's probably the most important belief system for the human race to have, but with news and media being so prevalent these days, its very easy for scientific theories to become widely accepted as fact, with or without intention. Probably starts out stated correctly as theory, inject some chinese whispers into the equation and voila, misinformation (isn't that what it's called these days?) Of course, theres also going to be the odd brave scientist, or brethren who will happily jump in front of a microphone and state what they believe (theorise) without first proving it, but hey, they're a scientist, so must be right, right?
Interesting points. I think it's more of a problem with politicians and the media though. Sure there are attention-seeking scientists who overstate things as fact. But generally scientists will say something like "the results indicate... ".
Richard Feynman famously said of scientists,
"The first principle is that you must
not fool yourself, and you are the
easiest person to fool." Most scientists are aware of this and design double-blind experiments, use placebos, subject their work for peer review and provide materials and methods so that the work can be reproduced.
Select to expand quotesnoidberg said..
Regardless of if or if not fluoride helps your teeth, people are overlooking the amounts of tap water that go into our food production like bread.
Fluoride doesn't evaporate out when it's boiled, it instead concentrates as the water boils away.
Is it safe to drink pure fluoride?
How much poison is ok then?
If you ask a dentist they will tell you fluoride is good for you because they care for teeth.
If you ask a toxicologist if fluoride is good for you you will likely get a different answer.
If someone says fluoride is good for you hand them a glass of pure fluoride and see if they are prepared to drink it.
Google "What was fluoride originally used for"
The first use of adding fluoride to drinking water was undertaken by the Nazi party who added it to the drinking water of the ghettos and prison camps. They found through human experimentation that fluoride actually made people more docile and subservient as well as sterilizing them.
Sounds similar to what governments want today,
depopulation and subservient slaves.
The sugar industry and the aluminium industry lobbied governments to put fluoride into water supplies.
The sugar industry lobbied for fluoride to be added to water supplies because governments were considering regulating the food industry to reduce sugar intake and reduce health care costs. The aluminium Industry were concerned about being sued due to fluoride pollution run off and funded a fraudulent study to make out fluoride has health benefits that would allow them to sell their byproduct (fluoride) to governments to put in town water.
It was a win win, they actually get paid to polite the environment by selling the waste for us to drink.
Fluoride added to our tap water is not the type of fluoride used at the dentist's office and in toothpaste (sodium fluoride), but is rather a form of industrial waste called hydrofluorosilicic acid.
Is it ok for government for force medicate a population?
Nuremberg.
"Andy Hollinger, who handles media relations at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, tried not to laugh as we explained our fact-check."
"I can almost guarantee you that is indeed an urban myth," he said. "... That sounds like Conspiracy Theory 101."
www.politifact.com/factchecks/2011/oct/06/critics-water-fluoridation/truth-about-fluoride-doesnt-include-nazi-myth/
Glad we've got Fangman on this thread. I've got a mate who's a toxicologist but I think Fangman's comment covered it.
I usually eat about a kilo of the plain Greek Mundella each morning so I'm thinking that's not a good enough solution, I was adding fruit and berries but according to Ayurvedic medicine, mixing proteins and carbs can rush the peristalsis so I went back to just plain for a year but I didn't notice a difference so the berries are going back in.
My problem might, and is probably because I had some issues with hypoglycemia so I was shoving bucket loads of sugar in. And my buckled poverty born teeth are extremely difficult to clean properly, usually end up bleeding with a manual floss, the aqua floss goes ok.
Select to expand quoteremery said..
Studies have indicated that poor dental health and cardiovascular disease are linked.
Bummer for the people who avoid fluoride, masks and vaccination. Darwinism at its finest.
haha
the irony
A little off topic but I cant help myself: healthy gum tissue is extraordinarily tough stuff. Think of what the tissue on your roof of your mouth goes through. Continually moist and mashed every time you eat. One of the defence mechanisms to deal with bacteria is for the gum to swell with more defence cells and become more permeable so the defence cells can get out into your mouth easily to deal with the intruders; opening the castle gates and counter-attacking sorta thing. The gum will look 'redder', bleed easily and possibly be a bit puffy to look at. So if your gums bleed, take it as a sign there are intruders at the gate and you need to help by going hard on that area. Don't worry if it bleeds, as soon as your body is happy there are no more intruders it will heal regardless of whatever you are throwing at it. Your gum will be tender because it's full of inflammatory cells, but as it heals, this will subside. In short, Go Full Predator Arnie "if it bleeds we can kill it"
Teeth that are not nicely aligned (amongst other things) can make this a never ending battle and a complete PIA. Unfortunately there is no lazyman's way out - if there was I would have found it.
And even further off topic, the increase in gum permeability when inflamed works both ways. The downside is it's also an opportunity for bacteria to get past the castle gates, and if large enough numbers, run amok and cause mischief in your heart.
Select to expand quotefangman said..
A little off topic but I cant help myself: healthy gum tissue is extraordinarily tough stuff. Think of what the tissue on your roof of your mouth goes through. Continually moist and mashed every time you eat. One of the defence mechanisms to deal with bacteria is for the gum to swell with more defence cells and become more permeable so the defence cells can get out into your mouth easily to deal with the intruders; opening the castle gates and counter-attacking sorta thing. The gum will look 'redder', bleed easily and possibly be a bit puffy to look at. So if your gums bleed, take it as a sign there are intruders at the gate and you need to help by going hard on that area. Don't worry if it bleeds, as soon as your body is happy there are no more intruders it will heal regardless of whatever you are throwing at it. Your gum will be tender because it's full of inflammatory cells, but as it heals, this will subside. In short, Go Full Predator Arnie "if it bleeds we can kill it"
Teeth that are not nicely aligned (amongst other things) can make this a never ending battle and a complete PIA. Unfortunately there is no lazyman's way out - if there was I would have found it.
And even further off topic, the increase in gum permeability when inflamed works both ways. The downside is it's also an opportunity for bacteria to get past the castle gates, and if large enough numbers, run amok and cause mischief in your heart.
C'mon man, it's pretty much on topic, much closer than most Seabreeze threads after this many comments.
Anyway, it's all helpful to me.
Just as an aside, Fangy is the best dentist I've ever been to, and I've been to a few
Select to expand quotefangman said..
Having worked at the coalface for a few decades I feel I can add a couple of points here.
I remineralize my water with a product called 40,000 Volts (www.amazon.com.au/Trace-Minerals-000-Volts-8-Ounce/dp/B000Z98KF8). I've tried other minerals, but this one seems to be effective for me.
And I use a Waterpik dental floss as my bicarbonate delivery method. I used the Waterpik before I started adding bicarbonate... incorporating bicarbonate was a significant improvement compared to the toilet cleaner they sell as mouthwash.
Select to expand quoteFlySurfer said..fangman said..
Having worked at the coalface for a few decades I feel I can add a couple of points here.
I remineralize my water with a product called 40,000 Volts (www.amazon.com.au/Trace-Minerals-000-Volts-8-Ounce/dp/B000Z98KF8). I've tried other minerals, but this one seems to be effective for me.
And I use a Waterpik dental floss as my bicarbonate delivery method. I used the Waterpik before I started adding bicarbonate... incorporating bicarbonate was a significant improvement compared to the toilet cleaner they sell as mouthwash.
I hadn't even considered putting bicarb in the waterpik, that's genius, I think I'll try that tomorrow.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..
I hadn't even considered putting bicarb in the waterpik, that's genius, I think I'll try that tomorrow.
You'll need to rinse the Waterpik after running Bicarb, and once a week run white vinegar or other acid through it to descale and avoid the little piston from breaking after a couple months.
PS: Bicarb isn't effective for pre/post-op disinfecting, don't ask how I know.
Select to expand quotefangman said..psychojoe said..
Actually. I'm open to changing my belief system on this one. I'm considering not having a water filter on the next house just because of your comments. One of my kids doesn't like to brush her teeth properly.
So yes. Please do prattle on. I'll be reading it all with great interest.
Prattle v1 To the best of my knowledge, the vast majority of water filters won't remove fluoride from the water supply, hence the need for R/O. I still have an old work R/O unit at home and it is used daily for all sorts of stuff that is better done with pure water, so PJ, I wouldn't ditch the idea of a filter or R/O.
I am not sure where to start on the fluoride and tooth enamel stuff. Some background info perhaps? The enamel on your teeth is a rod like structure and looks like a packet of pasta viewed end on when viewed under magnification. If you could imagine a washing line full of footy socks lined up together, and each of those socks stuffed with quartz pebbles that's pretty close.
As your teeth form beneath your gums, the sock is laid down to act as formwork and then the grano-worker cells come along and dump a quartz like substance into each sock. Fluoride works by substituting into the 'quartz' filler and making it harder and more acid resistant. Once the tooth erupts into your mouth the grano-workers are done and dusted and no more quartz can be added. (Which is why you can't grow enamel back as an adult)
Except, nature is a bit clever and has added some more layers of defence. The enamel on a freshly erupted tooth is not fully mineralised/saturated, so you if you soak the surface in a mineralised solution the tooth will absorb more minerals. As Mrs Marsh said, the fluoride really does get in.
Hence fluoridated water and toothpaste is really helpful in strengthening freshly erupted teeth.
You can't overstuff the sock with pebbles. So as you age the benefit of F on tooth enamel reduces. However, the pebbles can be eaten out of the sock by acids. As long as you don't damage the sock you can top up the pebbles again if the environment is not acidic. Bicarb creates an environment where your saliva can get on with remineralising much sooner and faster. Toothpaste minerals can be good in this regard too.
You can damage the sock framework when it's not supported by pebbles. You cannot regrow the sock framework. So if you damage the sock, you can't replace any pebbles. (Pebbles are lost to acid attack). It's really important not to damage the sock framework. For example, when you have a spew and coat your teeth in stomach acid, the worst thing you can do is brush your teeth as the sock will be brushed away. Instead, rinse your mouth to get rid of the acid, again bicarb rinse is awesome here. Give the saliva a good half hour to repair/replenish the pebbles in the sock. Toothpaste is a good source of pebble minerals for repair too.
This applies anytime you bathe your teeth in acid - eg fizzy and sports drinks. I should add, that when you feed the bad bugs sugars, they form colonies know as plaque and churn out acid directly onto the enamel below -> decay is the result.
Congrats to the scrollers, here is the abstract: At any age F helps strengthen the surface layer of enamel against acid attack, but more so on freshly erupted teeth. Take special care to repair your teeth after bathing them in food additive acids.
PJ (assuming you made it this far) is this at all helpful?
Maybe I'm missing something.
I'm still having trouble reconciling the tribes that sharpen their teeth. Surely they're not going through life without enamel. I'm really hoping to understand this.
Caught the tooth fairy grinding one up a?d racking it once
What a treat for the senses that would have been
I wonder if haveing all level teeth corrects ya jaw alignment
Select to expand quoteCarantoc said..
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If I then do a quick check of the links provided to rubbish this claim the very first one I clicked on, randomly on first page of those results states :
This paper reviews the human health effects of fluoride. The authors conclude that available evidence suggests that fluoride has a potential to cause major adverse human health problems, while having only a modest dental caries prevention effect. As part of efforts to reduce hazardous fluoride ingestion, the practice of artificial water fluoridation should be reconsidered globally, while industrial safety measures need to be tightened in order to reduce unethical discharge of fluoride compounds into the environment.
www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/293019/
www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-21/wiley-hindawi-articles-scandal-broader-crisis-trust-universities/103868662
Water Fluoridation: A Critical Review of the Physiological Effects of Ingested Fluoride as a Public Health Intervention - Stephen Peckham
Bingo! I think we have reached peak CT and gotten all the CTs into threads.
If fluoride affects IQ, at least here in Aus we are all on a level playing feel.
But somehow I would expect that there would be a surge in super brilliant people that drink tank water or abstain from tap water? We don't seem to have this though. Is it the chemtrails that are taking care of this?
