Nothing against foiling but I've yet to see one plane consistently below 10 knots.
Yesterday at Melville there were two hydrofoil kite surfers planing consistently till it got dark. The wind looked well less than 10 knots with the occassional gust to 12.
Hydrofoil windsurfing is promoted mostly as a lightwind alternative to windsurfing. To me it does offer some improvement in light conditions for the same sail size though not great. The main difference it offers is a different feel.
Were I want to get out in marginal conditions of 6-12 knots, hydrofoil kiting is clearly the way to go,not that I like them much!
www.raceyou.ru:443/showthread.php?t=25231&page=47
This is a comment from Russian forum about Naish foil in Moscow:
See post #694 from anton
"???? ???? ??? ? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? 6,2 ??? ????? ???????(??? ? ??????? ????? ????????) ???? ?? ??????? ???? 5-7 ?/? ?? ? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????????? ????."
In English: "Naish foil did not make it in flight. Perhaps 6.2 sail was too small. Poor guy could rent a bigger sail. Wind was 5-7 m/s (6-13 knots). The rider was as light as amaster (75 kg). "
If you read his earlier posts he is talking about good day of windsurfing when all sailors have been having fun foiling and formula sailing but not the guy on Naish Foil with 6.2 sail.
I have been using my new foil for some time already. I need 7 knots to foil: 1000 sq cm, 7.2, 175lbs, no harness. Measured 7 knots very accurately when wind was on shore within 6.5-7.5 knots. Possibly take off at 7.5 knots and continue flight when wind temporary drops to 6.5. Fine tuning of foil and sail is the key. Stiffness is very important for easy control. My stabilizer deflects for 1/8" inch if I hang 40 lbs on it. Check your foil. Wings design needs to be good = short chord and large span. I will post a video when I learn flying turns. For now check this video of a foil very similar to what I have with wind speed measuring:
GPS tracks and speeds bro, post them.
I think you have successfully created the world's slowest flying foil if nothing else, props ??
XYZ yet again, your claim of the Naish foiler proves nothing. As anyone with a basic understanding of sailing and foiling knows, a sailor can rig a sail poorly, and the foil and sail will not perform together as expected. Perhaps this is the case? Perhaps the foil has not been adjusted correctly for the rear wing angle of attack, and hence the foil won't lift? Perhaps the sailor is not as experienced as the others? In the video I see nothing of the Naish foiler. Where is he/she?
How about you go and hire a Naish foil, and compare it with your awesome foil, capture some video of them both to prove us doubters wrong.
If the FRP gear is as good as you reckon it is, then how come there isn't a massive following for it? I've googled for FRP gear, and can only find a couple of minor mentions, and many of those are not favourable.
If it was as good as you say, then how come no independent reviews of the foils which includes FRP have been carried out? Conspiracy against FPR? Or maybe it's just not good enough to make the cut to start with?
I'm not saying the FRP gear is rubbish (I'm not saying it's awesome either). I'm just saying that your claims of FRP gear being WAAAAY better than Naish are not supported by your arguments or evidence. There is plenty of evidence out there that refutes your claims of Naish being a poor product - despite what you say.
Regarding my previous comments, you still question Naish being able to fly in sub 14 knots despite the videos that have been put up - how much evidence do you need?
My negative experience with the Naish product is that the board is built very light, and is not robust. I have dinged mine by dropping a screwdriver on it, which I found disappointing. Foil is constructed well. And I would also say that in my limited experience, the Slingshot foil felt like it performed a tiny bit better, but was more difficult to use.
I bought frpgear foil because of positive comments from Europe, particularly from Bulgaria and from Russia.
From Bulgaria reposted on French forum in English:
www.windsurfing33.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=113208
From Russia (use google translator):
www.raceyou.ru:443/showthread.php?t=28946
BTW, Russian forum has widely adopted term "Fly-Fin Mode" as a description of high speed planing at light wind when it is not enough wind to fly a foil. For example, one Russian dude describes his day: "Because it was not enough wind to fly my Horue I just planed around in Fly-Fin mode. Guys! There is really Fly-Fin Mode. It works!" Starboard affiliate responds: "Would you stop using Fly-Fin Mode term!" Another guy comments: "I had much of Fly-Fin Mode today as well."
I do not see negative comments from English speaking frpgear customers. But I would like to read them if you can provide a link.
Windsurfing is much bigger in EU compare to US. It will come to the US. I already use fly-fin for early planing and I am satisfied with my new fly-fin hydrofoil. When I become good in flying jibe I will post a video. Again, I invested in fly-fin hydrofoil because it gets me in flight every day I go surfing. Now, I do not even need to check the weather. Even if it is no wind I get some moments in flight because of thermal wind we have every day about at noon for some 1/2 hr. Amazing!
I did not see flying jibes on the most recent Naish promotional video. Did anyone?
Perhaps, it was a coincident in Moscow. All the 100 people were good enough for light wind windsurfing and the only Naish customer was not. But when I listed to Naish video it tells me that it is very easy to fly Naish. As I already said, Naish is OK for beginners to try it for low cost. But you cannot fly Naish at light wind conditions like all foiles do in Europe. However, the latest Race Naish design look more like our light wind European foils. I see Naish is listening to its customers (affiliates) on this forum and on Russian forum and is trying to make better foils. This is good for us - the consumers. More competition means lower price.
Grabbed from a thread over in General: RSX planing in 0 wind!
Right below the post where a Horue foil got 5th in a long distance race. btw, if you foil needs two stabs, you did the math wrong.
Recently published videos about Naish and FRPGear windfoiling.
1. Very experienced (see his other video at 30 knots wind) windsurfer is riding new Naish foil at 18 knots wind:
It is good when competitors criticize the appearance. It means they have nothing to criticize in performance.
I actually purchased a different foil from frpgear.com. The one you show eaten by dogs model "Koryaga" is not in production yet, but I have paid for this already because the price is less for 50% if you pay ahead of time. Plus I get my 50% discount as an existing customer. It means I am going to have a new foil for almost no money out of my budget.
In fact, nobody knows yet how the production version of Koryaga will look like. It may look even extra ugly. However, water is not as clear on my spot as on Naish videos. Nobody can see the ugly Koryaga foil from the beach. With current prototype you can only see the upper portion attached to the board and it looks very cool (for an engineer): it looks like the board is supported by a conical hyperboloid so when you fly higher the spectators think that you are balancing on a point. Traditional mast may appear nice for a lamber Jack from WA because it looks like a straight log.
But, if you are one of these seating on the beach all the time next to your gear you may be better with a country style paint job like Naish particularly if you live in these former Russian/Mexican states like WA or OR. BTW Naish paintwork has been criticized on Russian forum. Naish paints his foils over the finished surface resulting in steps. FRP impregnates the painting inside the composite so there are no surface imperfections resulting in better performance and you can sand it without reaching the impregnated text.
The large base on the top of the foil makes it possible to use it on any bard - no need to reinforce the finbox. Just get the right adapter: Tuttle, Power, Naish rails, or US Box. Yes, US box is good for this foil too because there is very light, if any load, on the box. I can ride my foil even without fin box screws because there is no load on the crews. But the most important practical advantage is +/- 8 inch adjustment along the board. Unlike other foils I am not limited by fin box position. I can move my entire foil within 16 inch around fin box. This makes it very easy to find the right balance point without repositioning my foot straps. If I go from a smaller wing to a larger wing it is easy for me to rebalance the system. This is why my foil worked well right out of the box with factory preset angles. You can read on other thread how much trouble people are having with finding a correct balance on foils, particularly with short fuselage and smaller stabilizers like F4. And I can use the same foil on a kite board thanks to the universal adjustment. Interestingly, frp foil fits Naish board as well with more adjustment options compare to Naish foils. So, when I buy my next Naish used board for $50 I will be able to use my frpgear foil.
After all, why do I care how my frp foil appears to someone from USA or to anyone else if I can always return it and get all my money back if I discover that I want to ride Naish instead?
On a proud note to our American partners I have to admit that both: Naish and PRPGear products are Made in the USA!
Since we have Naish representatives here, perhaps, I can get my questions answered:
I have contacted Naish after watching Naish 2019 promotional video. See my conversation with Naish customer service below.
www.facebook.com/NaishWindsurfing/videos/263238997660504/
Customer: I understand Naish foils need minimum 10 knots wind to fly with 70kg rider and 5m sail. did I understand it correctly? What was the wind speed on the video?
Naish: Aloha,
With the Thrust Windsurf Foil and Hover 122 or 142 you need very little wind to get up and foil. How light of winds is dependent on ability but we have had guys send us photos foiling in winds as light as 8 knots! As far as the windspeed in the video, I'm not sure exactly but you can tell by the waters surface that it was very light.
Customer: Can I return the foil for a refund if my son does not like it because he says Naish may be not as light wind foil compared to the one he is using now? Thx.
Naish: That will depend on the dealers return policy. However the Thrust is a modular platform which means you can change wings and parts beyond the windsurf wings (like the Surf M,L & XL or even the KS2 wings)
Customer: Can you provide google map or GPS coordinates of the location and the day when the video was taken? From the video it appears that the wins is off shore resulting in very flat water surface at stronger wind, which appears to be some 14 knots, I see similar water surface in our location when the wind is off shore at 14 knots. If you provide the location and the day I could check wind speed recorded in the location of the video. And, could you please comment on my question about jibes? This video does not show a jibe, Do you have any videos with a jibe completed while in flight without touching water?
Naish::-) + No answer...
Customer:Where is your store located?
Naish: No answer...
mate just p*ss off people are getting pretty sick of your crap
it started out amusing but that was a long time ago. goodbye.