Select to expand quoteXYZ said..Paducah said.. : "THEN DON'T BUY A NAISH..."
I would never buy a foil if I do not have an option to return it for 100% refund if I am not satisfied. At least I need an option to try it for free from a local representative. I need a convenience to try, so I do not need to travel to Spain for a Naish event to try. I need an option for a free tryout at my home on my spot. FRPgear gives me such of an option to buy, try and return by using a Post service prepaid. Naish does not give me such an option. Naish wants me to buy and get stack with my purchase and but more wings that they say may fix my problems but they just want to get more of my money.
Lol
that is the way most business occurs. You don't generally get to return an item just because you don't like it. Why would you assume that its fine to purchase a product, use it, decide you don't like it, then return said item used and not fit for resale at full price, and get a full refund out of it?
i guess it doesn't matter if you're returning it to yourself though.
Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..XYZ said..Paducah said.. : "THEN DON'T BUY A NAISH..."
I would never buy a foil if I do not have an option to return it for 100% refund if I am not satisfied. At least I need an option to try it for free from a local representative. I need a convenience to try, so I do not need to travel to Spain for a Naish event to try. I need an option for a free tryout at my home on my spot. FRPgear gives me such of an option to buy, try and return by using a Post service prepaid. Naish does not give me such an option. Naish wants me to buy and get stack with my purchase and but more wings that they say may fix my problems but they just want to get more of my money.
Lol
i guess it doesn't matter if you're returning it to yourself though.
I guess the bottom line here is that No-one in Australia Will buy or come in cooee of FRP Gear because of XYZ.
It's fine for XYZ to have shared his opinion but now it's time to give I a rest, Please! It was interesting but gone too far.
If someone here wants a Naish Foil set up then it's up to them to waste (LOL) their money and buy it.
Maybe XYZ should start his own threads in future rather than poisoning serious conversations with his repeated opinions.
Or come clean to who he is. XYZ, seriously? FRP code?
what ever dude.
Select to expand quoteXYZ said..martyj4 said..
XYZ,, I'll look forwards to the new accounts you create of Naish foilers....
Check out another [sic] "fake" account from a Canadian "pretending" to know about another unsatisfied Naish user:
joewindsurfer.blogspot.com/2017/08/
"...I though I would get rid of it (Naish).
I find that I still need 9/10 kts to get going on it and on Lake Huron with 10 knots it starts getting wavy so its really not worth the hassle...
I think the biggest drawback is that the wind minimum is just that - the minimum wind. (because Naish cannot remain in flight during short wind drops) If it drops below that you are just dead in the water. At least a longboard still zips around below planing. At my launch, if I I go out in 10-15 knots its usually too wavy for a foil and I would rather just windsurf 'normally'. (because Naish is hard to control on waves.)
Do you think this customer could use 100% unsatisfied refund from Naish if Naish was offering a such? It seems to be this Naish customer us stack with Naish foil that is not good for use.
"Joe was selling that foil for about $1700 Canadian. Feel like I can get a new one for about same price."
It would be interesting to hear from Joe Windsurfer how did this person got involved in Naish foiling in the first place. Did he just watch Naish foiling videos "explaining Naish foiling at 6 knots wind" and reading forum posts like yours?
It is ironic how the world economy has changed. Americans are buying Naish, JP, NP, Starboard made in Asia at a higher price compared to American made higher quality, better performing and lower priced.
Yeah, a lot of gold on that page - gotta love this part, right?
"frpgear are actually selling what I will call the mini-foil .. it is 12 inches / 30 cm long and 14 inch / 35 cm wing span with a light weight of 0.9 lbs / 0.4 kgs. it is supposed to generate enough lift to relieve 50 pounds of weight / 22.7 kgs. this one is slated to work best with narrow boards - rather than wider boards like the full foils. i WAS in contact with them for a powerbox version in order to try it on a longboard and the Shark 145
Asked on iwindsurf about these quasi-foils and got the following !!
"Those were a bad idea 28 years ago and they still are. "
Fellow purchased the FRP mini-foil and HATED it !! "
I wonder who was foisting that crap on the public?
One guy who prefers his longboard to a Naish foil in wind below 10 knots tells me nothing. I don't know what level of foiler he is, his size or anything. As we say in science - that is an anecdote, not evidence. A real engineer would understand that...
Select to expand quoteXYZ said..martyj4 said..
XYZ,, I'll look forwards to the new accounts you create of Naish foilers....
Check out another [sic] "fake" account from a Canadian "pretending" to know about another unsatisfied Naish user:
joewindsurfer.blogspot.com/2017/08/
"...I though I would get rid of it (Naish).
I find that I still need 9/10 kts to get going on it and on Lake Huron with 10 knots it starts getting wavy so its really not worth the hassle...
I think the biggest drawback is that the wind minimum is just that - the minimum wind. (because Naish cannot remain in flight during short wind drops) If it drops below that you are just dead in the water. At least a longboard still zips around below planing. At my launch, if I I go out in 10-15 knots its usually too wavy for a foil and I would rather just windsurf 'normally'. (because Naish is hard to control on waves.)
Do you think this customer could use 100% unsatisfied refund from Naish if Naish was offering a such? It seems to be this Naish customer us stack with Naish foil that is not good for use.
"Joe was selling that foil for about $1700 Canadian. Feel like I can get a new one for about same price."
It would be interesting to hear from Joe Windsurfer how did this person got involved in Naish foiling in the first place. Did he just watch Naish foiling videos "explaining Naish foiling at 6 knots wind" and reading forum posts like yours?
It is ironic how the world economy has changed. Americans are buying Naish, JP, NP, Starboard made in Asia at a higher price compared to American made higher quality, better performing and lower priced.
If you can find a cheaper foil then my aluminum Neil pryde (blue) foil for $700 new. Bought six months ago. I agree american made is better quality but it isn't cheaper usually even if you live/ bought it there!
Imo $700 is a very affordable way to get into foiling no matter what brand you go with.
Select to expand quoteCAN17 said..XYZ said..martyj4 said..
XYZ,, I'll look forwards to the new accounts you create of Naish foilers....
Check out another [sic] "fake" account from a Canadian "pretending" to know about another unsatisfied Naish user:
joewindsurfer.blogspot.com/2017/08/
"...I though I would get rid of it (Naish).
I find that I still need 9/10 kts to get going on it and on Lake Huron with 10 knots it starts getting wavy so its really not worth the hassle...
I think the biggest drawback is that the wind minimum is just that - the minimum wind. (because Naish cannot remain in flight during short wind drops) If it drops below that you are just dead in the water. At least a longboard still zips around below planing. At my launch, if I I go out in 10-15 knots its usually too wavy for a foil and I would rather just windsurf 'normally'. (because Naish is hard to control on waves.)
Do you think this customer could use 100% unsatisfied refund from Naish if Naish was offering a such? It seems to be this Naish customer us stack with Naish foil that is not good for use.
"Joe was selling that foil for about $1700 Canadian. Feel like I can get a new one for about same price."
It would be interesting to hear from Joe Windsurfer how did this person got involved in Naish foiling in the first place. Did he just watch Naish foiling videos "explaining Naish foiling at 6 knots wind" and reading forum posts like yours?
It is ironic how the world economy has changed. Americans are buying Naish, JP, NP, Starboard made in Asia at a higher price compared to American made higher quality, better performing and lower priced.
If you can find a cheaper foil then my aluminum Neil pryde (blue) foil for $700 new. Bought six months ago. I agree american made is better quality but it isn't cheaper usually even if you live/ bought it there!
Imo $700 is a very affordable way to get into foiling no matter what brand you go with.
Yep, same for me. $700 for my NP AL foil that has kept me sailing all the way through winter and into summer in conditions I would have been sitting on the shore coz I wouldn't be able to get going. Bargain of the century. :)
Happy New Year!
It seem to be people here need someone to fuel the conversation. It is actually very typical in modern world where most of the people have been brainwashed down to slave followers and only very few clear minded remain to lead the crowd.
I think this may keep this topic burning:
frpgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Hydrofoils-Comparison.pdf
Select to expand quoteXYZ said..
Happy New Year!
It seem to be people here need someone to fuel the conversation. It is actually very typical in modern world where most of the people have been brainwashed down to slave followers and only very few clear minded remain to lead the crowd.
I think this may keep this topic burning:
frpgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Hydrofoils-Comparison.pdf
Actually, it won't - like most of your girlfriends, we've moved on. But, I've got to ask: Have you ever noticed that hardly a single one of your posts here ever has been upvoted? I've seen you post here, in France, Germany, the US and hardly a single time do you end up having a nice convo - it always ends up in a train wreck.
As the saying goes: If you smell dog poop in every room you go, maybe it's on your shoe.
Yeah, I bothered to read some of the pdf. Full of inaccuracies and fallacies but nice try. You really ought to sail a Starboard foil sometime. They are well thought out and ride nicely.
Select to expand quoteXYZ said..
Happy New Year!
It seem to be people here need someone to fuel the conversation. It is actually very typical in modern world where most of the people have been brainwashed down to slave followers and only very few clear minded remain to lead the crowd.
I think this may keep this topic burning:
frpgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Hydrofoils-Comparison.pdf
You clearly don't understand much about foiling. Some questions, can you do foiling jibes? Back/frontloops? Do you compete / win races? Have you been designing racewinning kitefoils which easily go past 35kts for the last 10 years? Did you design the america's cup foils? Because that is where JP/F4(not made in asia btw), moses, slingshot and most other foilbrands get their expertise from.
I can tell you now there is no way on earth your fly-Y foil is faster around the racetrack than someone with the starboard race, definately not on a smaller board with a small sail. I can also tell you now your foil won't nearly go as fast in a straight line as my Lokefoil, or the JP/F4, and it wont nearly jump as high as the slingshot or my F-One foils.
also, weight matters a lot less in foils than we think, and you can't say that your foil has less surface and is less thick and it still flies earlier and points higher than a starboard race, that is just not how lift works. Also, to me a mast only 60cm high isa really bad idea. You wrote down this story that because the fly-Y only needs 15cm in the water you have a longer effective mastheight, but that is just not how it works either. You need a longer mast in chop or when more powered up, because you need a larger margin of error. Also, you can't bank a board with a 60cm mast at all, which will greatly diminish its upwind potential.
as last: I have never had a spinout with a foil? Don't know where you got that idea from?
just go find a job. You may well be an engineer, but designing buildings or machines is nothing like designing a foil. I pity everyone at the university you say you went to, because you clearly never learned the appropriate skills to do research, present an idea and function properly in an educated society. I am not an engineer, i'm a psychometrician, so no relevant expertise there, but I have been able to try different prototype foil equipment and have been meticulously recording my every every session as part of the R&D sponsorshipdeal I have with F-One.
excuse the grammar, I'm tired, but really done with you and your ranting. If you want you can come over to the netherlands, I'll arange some F-One demo gear for you so you can understand what it is supposed to feel like, maybe you might learn something.
Select to expand quoteXYZ said..
Happy New Year!
It seem to be people here need someone to fuel the conversation. It is actually very typical in modern world where most of the people have been brainwashed down to slave followers and only very few clear minded remain to lead the crowd.
I think this may keep this topic burning:
frpgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Hydrofoils-Comparison.pdf
Lots of theory and ass-umptions made in the PDF but no actual proof
Show us the real numbers, GPS tracks, as a gingerbeer you must be able to quantify your suppositions
In this day and age it can't be to difficult.
Nicholas Goyard just hit 35 kts on a Starboard foil
www.facebook.com/nicolasgoyardwindsurfing/
kit: " I was with the Starboard foil set up with 550 front wing, 95 mast, 95 fuselage and 250 stabilizer ??
In 7,1"
Looks like someone needs to update their pdf
Select to expand quoteWhiteofHeart said..
I am ... a psychometrician...
Thank you for the long post.
Psychometrician is getting emotional and it is ok. Engineers are more pragmatic and less emotional. As an engineer I get excited by the engineering results. For example you say that F4 bits Fly-Y and I start thinking about it and get interested why would F4 bit Fly-Y. I am thinking perhaps, you have seen F4 next to Fly-Y. We, engineers got used to ignore propaganda but we pay attention to facts. If you have had an experiment showing F4 wins vs Fly-Y I should be able to have the same result. Because in my experiment Fly-Y bits F4, as an engineer I do not get excited as a psychometrician. As an engineer I want to find why F4 bits Fly-Y when you test it but Fly-Y bits F4 when I test it. In my location an older rider was on F4 and he could not get on the foil very well because of light wind so my FLY-Y was definitely faster because I was in flight and F4 was not in flight. When F4 got in flight it was not very stable, wiggling side-to side so it was loosing again. When F4 was kind of ok in stable flight it was going little slower than Fly-Y. F4 rider owns it for 2 years. Fly-Y came to market 2 months ago. The conclusions from my experiment is that even with longer practice F4 is more difficult to ride. Fly-Y is more stable in comparison to F4. Fly-Y is definitely earlier in flight compared to F4. There is a video of frpgear foils flying when Slingshot foils still pumping.
Fprgear defiantly has a unique design. The distance from front to back wing is pritty similar to other foil brands. I like how they have huge wings for light wind (120cm span). But I don't like how there mast or masts? is only 60cm. The price is actually good for made in America. LP is another USA made foil on the higher end of the spectrum. They also have a fairly large front wing at 94cm, glad to see this is starting to happen there... can't say the same for Canada as i think we are going the other way
I think a lot of kite brands are getting into the windfoil market and doing well such as LP, Zeeko, slingshot, etc.
I'm suffering the work getting in the way of fun these days but the few goes now on my Spitfire XXLW on 90cm mast as a Windfoil have me concluding that the same wind strength that can get me barely waterstarted ( using every trick in book to get up) is the same power to get foiling. Without pumping foil.
i don't own an uphaul rope and the Canard foil is not a problem to my shins.
still sorting strap and mast positioning but I feel the water start threshold looks to be my thing.
Having a wingspan under 600mm I'm seeing as a blessing.
I don't think you (XYZ) know what a psychometrician does. I'm a mathematician and have very little to do with psychology, I leave that to the people who know about it, but my expertise lies in setting up an experiment the correct way, minimising error and bias (research methodology), correctly documenting the results, and all the maths needed to interpret the results reported.
On top of that, as said before, I have sufficient knowledge about foildesign to see how some things in your arguments just don't add up. Especially the faster / fly earlier / more surface / less thickness / less drag and more lift part is really bollocks. The performance in these aspects just can't mix that way.
i have said before, If you are willing to send one over I would gladly test your product, do a comparison and give an honest opinion.
Kind regards.
Select to expand quoteRAL INN said..
I'm suffering the work getting in the way of fun these days but the few goes now on my Spitfire XXLW on 90cm mast as a Windfoil have me concluding that the same wind strength that can get me barely waterstarted ( using every trick in book to get up) is the same power to get foiling. Without pumping foil.
i don't own an uphaul rope and the Canard foil is not a problem to my shins.
still sorting strap and mast positioning but I feel the water start threshold looks to be my thing.
Having a wingspan under 600mm I'm seeing as a blessing.
RAL INN, I feel the same on my NP alu foil (2018). Although I do own an uphaul, the foil will consistently fly when I can waterstart (and the JP 135L board allows me to water start at lower winds than on my smaller boards). In true uphaul conditions it may go on a gust, but otherwise slogging. Having said that I don't have an effective pumping technique and so may not make the most of all opportunities. PS I use a 7m Cheetah in light wind.
Cheers, Mort
Select to expand quoteMort67 said..RAL INN said..
I'm suffering the work getting in the way of fun these days but the few goes now on my Spitfire XXLW on 90cm mast as a Windfoil have me concluding that the same wind strength that can get me barely waterstarted ( using every trick in book to get up) is the same power to get foiling. Without pumping foil.
i don't own an uphaul rope and the Canard foil is not a problem to my shins.
still sorting strap and mast positioning but I feel the water start threshold looks to be my thing.
Having a wingspan under 600mm I'm seeing as a blessing.
RAL INN, I feel the same on my NP alu foil (2018). Although I do own an uphaul, the foil will consistently fly when I can waterstart (and the JP 135L board allows me to water start at lower winds than on my smaller boards). In true uphaul conditions it may go on a gust, but otherwise slogging. Having said that I don't have an effective pumping technique and so may not make the most of all opportunities. PS I use a 7m Cheetah in light wind.
Cheers, Mort
I have to say, it was the same for me in the beginning, but by foiling on a 92L board with my 86kgs I learned to waterstart really well. Right now I manage to waterstart with 3.6 in about 13-14 knots (when slalommers with 7.8 are sometimes floating around one leg up if you get my drift), without having to do any special tricks. Matter of practice. With my 850 wings I can easily get up well before I can fly, with my 1200 XLW wing I can waterstart about a knot before flight, but I'd have rigged 4-5 or even 6m less than people with similar weights on the regular windsurfgear. Can bring it down even further by grabbing the mast instead of boom with the front hand. With bigger boards and sails it is not the same though. I can't waterstart my 8.6 in 5 kts or something, I think the border lies somewhere around 10 kts with 5.7, but in less wind I just cant get up anymore using regular techniques. Because the sail will not fly and there is no power in the rig in waterstart position.
Ok then, so there does seem to be a connection between the power needed to water start and to fly on foil.
the other day for me it was about 12 knots with 5.8m 135L and my 95-6kg
there might be some help from the extra resistance from the foil.
once flying for me it's the control direction phase I'm at.
Starboard says that with frpgear foil you need as low as 6m SB 2019 sail to fly at 4 knots wind.
Listen to Tiesda at 1:09-1:10
Select to expand quoteZYX said..
Starboard says that with frpgear foil you need as low as 6m SB 2019 sail to fly at 4 knots wind.
Listen to Tiesda at 1:09-1:10 
not sure we watched the same video.... but please don't stop.... I'm bored this week end,it's raining......
)
It is nice to see some innovative (and maybe oddball) designs out there. When all this stuff gets tried and confirmed--or refuted--we all benefit.
By the way, yes, you definitely can indeed spin out a foil. I do it all the time. If I am out in light wind trying to go upwind by leveraging the foil mast instead of tilting the board to windward, I easily slap down at even just 12" height. Friends of mine right behind me have seen me do this.
Select to expand quotesegler said..
It is nice to see some innovative (and maybe oddball) designs out there. When all this stuff gets tried and confirmed--or refuted--we all benefit.
By the way, yes, you definitely can indeed spin out a foil. I do it all the time. If I am out in light wind trying to go upwind by leveraging the foil mast instead of tilting the board to windward, I easily slap down at even just 12" height. Friends of mine right behind me have seen me do this.
Wouldn't foil spinouts be more prone on flat wings. With front wings that are anhedral (curved down), wouldn't they grip more allowing you to bank the board to windward like you see kitefoilers do. Preventing you from "sliping" windward (which I've done where the rig falls on you and your trying to escape
).
Or am I getting spinouts confused with something else?
Select to expand quoteZYX said..
Starboard says that with frpgear foil you need as low as 6m SB 2019 sail to fly at 4 knots wind.
Listen to Tiesda at 1:09-1:10
ah ah ah ah 
ZYX you are a really fun (or borderline unhinged)! Tiesda You talking about your crappy frp while presenting Starboard products? You are precious, you should be a comedian but you seem to do better at being a charlatan.
xyz,
I've seen both those videos. You are either a) in dire need of medical attention or b) full of crap but still in need of help. I'm really hoping that it's simply a) because you can get help. If you feel like Tiesda You is speaking to you via Youtube, I believe the proper term for that is a psychosis which would indicate a significant but likely treatable medical issue.
If you simply lied (none of which you claimed those videos said is true), thinking that no one either hadn't or wouldn't watch the videos, that, too, indicates an issue that can be addressed by a professional through counseling but won't be a quick and easy thing to address. Continuing as you are will be damaging to you and your relationships with others. If you, at all, are interacting with those close to you as you are with us on this forum, things will be difficult for you and those around you.
I used to think you were just a stubborn inventor who suffered a bit by not understanding social cues. This latest post has me genuinely concerned for your well-being.
When I say spinout, I am talking about the same type of spinout as we get with a regular fin, but this time it's the foil mast (strut) that spins out.
I am foiling along, enjoying life. I hear the tearing sound of the mast cutting water. I point the board upwind but keep it mostly level. It slows down. If I slow down too much the tearing sound increases a lot, but the wing continues flying. At some point the mast cavitates and spins out. It all slaps down. Easy to recover.
This is all about the mast (strut), not the wing.
Lesson learned. Use the wing to pinch upwind by railing the board to windward. Don't use the strut (mast) like a fin, like we all do with formula.
Select to expand quotesegler said..
When I say spinout, I am talking about the same type of spinout as we get with a regular fin, but this time it's the foil mast (strut) that spins out.
I am foiling along, enjoying life. I hear the tearing sound of the mast cutting water. I point the board upwind but keep it mostly level. It slows down. If I slow down too much the tearing sound increases a lot, but the wing continues flying. At some point the mast cavitates and spins out. It all slaps down. Easy to recover.
This is all about the mast (strut), not the wing.
Lesson learned. Use the wing to pinch upwind by railing the board to windward. Don't use the strut (mast) like a fin, like we all do with formula.
Ok,
Yes I do this all the time sailing formula
On a different point. Don't Only curved wings allow you to bank the board windward or can you do this with flat wings too?
