Select to expand quoteBWalnut said..Jeroensurf said..
No its not.I,m 95kg on a very good day/when we runned out of cookies and chocolate, now with 5mm hooded suit etc 100/103kg and really like my KT Wingdrifter 5.4x22x56l in solid 20knots and gusts above with AFS 850 and 1050 foils. I tried smaaler and that made it for me harder to start...imo mainly due the lack of length but that comes with lower volume (the 5.4 is allready pretty thin).That said, when its short period chaos, onshorish I rather grab my 6.5x22x92l SuperK just because its soo much easier to slog on, push through acouple of waves and then get on the foil instead of sinking the seccond I lose sped on the 56l.btw, I ride always strapless
Running out of cookies and chocolate is the worst!
What wing would you use with the 56l and 850 when it's solid 20 knots? I have't explored sinkers of that ratio too much but ride those foils so I'd love to hear what wing you need!
:)Its even worse when you think you got some left hidden but the Missus found my secret stash 
.
Regarding to wings, its very much depending on the conditions: Our wind is most of the time depression driven and onshore to sideshore. True side off days with waves are rare here but our wind is rather constant/less variables compared to most places I have been. We have wind generated wind and when that is sideshore and the tide (slow) isnt against the wind you can easily drift away 7-8km p/h. So we need some power to get on foil. Even when wind against tide we still drift away 5km p/h.The wind meters are at the sea aprox 1km from the coast, so when I say 20knots its less, probably 16 at the beach, but I can, t check that.
I just go with what is measured 1km out.
Anyway these conditions making us needing more power as at places where the tide isnt a factor or an current runs against the wind like the Gorge or Brandon Bay-Ireland where we spend a lot of holidays.
Not me, but some local wingfoil and windsurf action so you get an idea of the conditions.
Select to expand quoteBoardMaverick said..
Responding to the initial question:
In my experience, a "sinker" board of 0.8 (L-volume to kg-weight) is much easier to start than 0.54. Being closer to the surface results in a more corky experience, however accelerating requires much less effort; less awkward balancing and less pumping. Minimizing struggle = longer sessions.
I started with a 0.54 sinker 2 years ago, and due to the lighter-winds in my area, I could only realistically ride this sinker 2-3 times a year. Now, with my 0.8 board, I ride it about 50% of the time. The difference is that I am closer to the surface and better able to gain the momentum that is necessary to launch. To be clear, I only use my 0.8 board when I have decent wind and power in my wing. I need about 15 kts for this board to be feasible and am able to launch in about 20 seconds. If wind is marginal, I ride a big-ol' SUP board.
After trying several methods for launching, the rodeo method has worked best for me. I'm posting this video to show you what works for me in the hope that it will help a few of you folks out there. Of course, we are all different people, have different skills, body types, and flexibilities. So, I am not suggesting that other methods won't work better for other people. Watch the video to see how I launch after a fall. I have included pointers on the technique I use in the description of the vide. Let me know what you think.
Board dimensions: 4'8 x 20 1/2 x 4" x 58L
Enjoy the learning journey!
- Stuart
Sorry don't understand what u mean by saying 0.8 Board? 80% of kg in liter?
That's more an Semisinker!? More floating than sinking.
Select to expand quoteDriks said..BoardMaverick said..
Responding to the initial question:
In my experience, a "sinker" board of 0.8 (L-volume to kg-weight) is much easier to start than 0.54. Being closer to the surface results in a more corky experience, however accelerating requires much less effort; less awkward balancing and less pumping. Minimizing struggle = longer sessions.
I started with a 0.54 sinker 2 years ago, and due to the lighter-winds in my area, I could only realistically ride this sinker 2-3 times a year. Now, with my 0.8 board, I ride it about 50% of the time. The difference is that I am closer to the surface and better able to gain the momentum that is necessary to launch. To be clear, I only use my 0.8 board when I have decent wind and power in my wing. I need about 15 kts for this board to be feasible and am able to launch in about 20 seconds. If wind is marginal, I ride a big-ol' SUP board.
After trying several methods for launching, the rodeo method has worked best for me. I'm posting this video to show you what works for me in the hope that it will help a few of you folks out there. Of course, we are all different people, have different skills, body types, and flexibilities. So, I am not suggesting that other methods won't work better for other people. Watch the video to see how I launch after a fall. I have included pointers on the technique I use in the description of the vide. Let me know what you think.
Board dimensions: 4'8 x 20 1/2 x 4" x 58L
Enjoy the learning journey!
- Stuart
Sorry don't understand what u mean by saying 0.8 Board? 80% of kg in liter?
That's more an Semisinker!? More floating than sinking.
Yup: 58 liters divided by ~73 kg is about 0.8. This ratio has been quoted in several threads and I assumed that it was a sort of standard metric. However, honestly, I don't know what threshold qualifies as a true "sinker". I mean, no board is actually going to sink. Intuitively, I thought anything below 1.0 was categorized as a sinker, but I see your "semi-sinker" point.
The main point that I wanted to make was that you maybe don't want to get a 0.6 board just because that's the advice of certain experts. If you practice a bit, corkiness can be managed and you might end up saving yourself a lot of energy and having longer sessions.
Best,
-S.
In case people don't know where that ratio comes from, it's called the Guild Factor:
lostsurfboards.net/whats-your-guild-factor-surfboard-volumes-explained/#:~:text=GF%20measures%20the%20ratio%20between,in%20mind%20skill%20and%20fitness).
It's the same thing I use for the BARG Factor equation:
www.wouzel.com/post/calculating-your-barg-factor
Using that ratio gives you a bit better of a relationship than simply saying -30 or whatever liter drop you are considering. -30 for a 100kg rider (.7gf) is different than -30 for a 60kg rider (.5gf).
Jo!
Another question... If u are also looking for an board for freestyle/jumping the board should not be to small because of stable landings and faster recovery!? So maybe it's better to choose an 65l board instead of 55l!? How is ur perspective on this?
Select to expand quote
Sorry don't understand what u mean by saying 0.8 Board? 80% of kg in liter?
That's more an Semisinker!? More floating than sinking.
Yup: 58 liters divided by ~73 kg is about 0.8. This ratio has been quoted in several threads and I assumed that it was a sort of standard metric. However, honestly, I don't know what threshold qualifies as a true "sinker". I mean, no board is actually going to sink. Intuitively, I thought anything below 1.0 was categorized as a sinker, but I see your "semi-sinker" point.
The main point that I wanted to make was that you maybe don't want to get a 0.6 board just because that's the advice of certain experts. If you practice a bit, corkiness can be managed and you might end up saving yourself a lot of energy and having longer sessions.
Best,
-S.
Totally! In the short compact models, we tested the same model, for .60, .80, 1.25 my weigth and a big difference from the .6 to .8
From .8 to over 1 almost no difference in take off unless there is not enough wind to pop on foil ans you need to pump for 10 sec and use all the speed you can create.but almost the same take off.
however a dw 1.25 vs a compact is no match. I did not test the same concept in ML world.
Select to expand quoteBWalnut said..
In case people don't know where that ratio comes from, it's called the Guild Factor:
lostsurfboards.net/whats-your-guild-factor-surfboard-volumes-explained/#:~:text=GF%20measures%20the%20ratio%20between,in%20mind%20skill%20and%20fitness).
It's the same thing I use for the BARG Factor equation:
www.wouzel.com/post/calculating-your-barg-factor
Using that ratio gives you a bit better of a relationship than simply saying -30 or whatever liter drop you are considering. -30 for a 100kg rider (.7gf) is different than -30 for a 60kg rider (.5gf).
Please don't propagate marketing bulls**t... 
.. Guild factor is pretty annoying to those of us who have been using volume fraction as a rule of thumb for a decade or two before those guys came along and claimed to invent it. Yet another case of surf industry guys taking old ideas from windsurfing and claiming they "innovated" 
Select to expand quoteBoardMaverick said..Driks said..BoardMaverick said..
Responding to the initial question:
In my experience, a "sinker" board of 0.8 (L-volume to kg-weight) is much easier to start than 0.54. Being closer to the surface results in a more corky experience, however accelerating requires much less effort; less awkward balancing and less pumping. Minimizing struggle = longer sessions.
I started with a 0.54 sinker 2 years ago, and due to the lighter-winds in my area, I could only realistically ride this sinker 2-3 times a year. Now, with my 0.8 board, I ride it about 50% of the time. The difference is that I am closer to the surface and better able to gain the momentum that is necessary to launch. To be clear, I only use my 0.8 board when I have decent wind and power in my wing. I need about 15 kts for this board to be feasible and am able to launch in about 20 seconds. If wind is marginal, I ride a big-ol' SUP board.
After trying several methods for launching, the rodeo method has worked best for me. I'm posting this video to show you what works for me in the hope that it will help a few of you folks out there. Of course, we are all different people, have different skills, body types, and flexibilities. So, I am not suggesting that other methods won't work better for other people. Watch the video to see how I launch after a fall. I have included pointers on the technique I use in the description of the vide. Let me know what you think.
Board dimensions: 4'8 x 20 1/2 x 4" x 58L
Enjoy the learning journey!
- Stuart
Sorry don't understand what u mean by saying 0.8 Board? 80% of kg in liter?
That's more an Semisinker!? More floating than sinking.
Yup: 58 liters divided by ~73 kg is about 0.8. This ratio has been quoted in several threads and I assumed that it was a sort of standard metric. However, honestly, I don't know what threshold qualifies as a true "sinker". I mean, no board is actually going to sink. Intuitively, I thought anything below 1.0 was categorized as a sinker, but I see your "semi-sinker" point.
The main point that I wanted to make was that you maybe don't want to get a 0.6 board just because that's the advice of certain experts. If you practice a bit, corkiness can be managed and you might end up saving yourself a lot of energy and having longer sessions.
Best,
-S.
I have two ML boards, one is .85 volume fraction and the other .68 volume fraction (80L and 65L). Both take off easily once to the surface, but the .85 board will stay on the surface when the wind is well below the take off threshold. I consider .8 - 1.0 to be semi-sinker and below .8 or so to be a full sinker.
If you have short sharp gusts, a semi-sinker is much better but a sinker might be fine if you are in steady wind or rolling long period gusts. Where I ride I'm downwind of a big cliff a lot of the time so it's an advantage to be able to pop up on foil in a 5 second gust.
Shape has a roll to play as well, more surface area and a planing bottom shape will rise to the surface better than a really skinny displacement hull.
Select to expand quoteJonahL said..BWalnut said..
In case people don't know where that ratio comes from, it's called the Guild Factor:
lostsurfboards.net/whats-your-guild-factor-surfboard-volumes-explained/#:~:text=GF%20measures%20the%20ratio%20between,in%20mind%20skill%20and%20fitness).
It's the same thing I use for the BARG Factor equation:
www.wouzel.com/post/calculating-your-barg-factor
Using that ratio gives you a bit better of a relationship than simply saying -30 or whatever liter drop you are considering. -30 for a 100kg rider (.7gf) is different than -30 for a 60kg rider (.5gf).
Please don't propagate marketing bulls**t... .. Guild factor is pretty annoying to those of us who have been using volume fraction as a rule of thumb for a decade or two before those guys came along and claimed to invent it. Yet another case of surf industry guys taking old ideas from windsurfing and claiming they "innovated"
lol, well it's just what it's called across the industry. I don't see how it's marketing bs, it's just the name of the ratio that's been adopted and it's known and understood by shapers pretty much everywhere. I don't have any interest in any beef between any windsurfers and surfers. I'm just out there to have fun and simply use that ratio for every single board I have in every single activity. Cheers.
Select to expand quoteJonahL said..
I have two ML boards, one is .85 volume fraction and the other .68 volume fraction (80L and 65L). Both take off easily once to the surface, but the .85 board will stay on the surface when the wind is well below the take off threshold. I consider .8 - 1.0 to be semi-sinker and below .8 or so to be a full sinker.
If you have short sharp gusts, a semi-sinker is much better but a sinker might be fine if you are in steady wind or rolling long period gusts. Where I ride I'm downwind of a big cliff a lot of the time so it's an advantage to be able to pop up on foil in a 5 second gust.
Shape has a roll to play as well, more surface area and a planing bottom shape will rise to the surface better than a really skinny displacement hull.
I have a bundle of ML boards as well. 1 is easiest for me to slog. .9 feels like a significant decrease in slogging but still close to the same takeoff. .75 I only take out in solid winds, never under 20 knots as it really does struggle with the short period gusts.
