Select to expand quoteHi Peter,
You are clearly a climate change denier. The evidence is everywhere, just turn on the news or read something that isn't from your climate denier websites or magazines. You are in the minority. I cannot understand your reasoning. In my opinion, you are going to have a very hard job on your hands trying to convince the majority of folk that climate change isn't real. In time perhaps you'll change your mind, perhaps only when climate change starts to affect your quality of life.
Unlike trial vaccines where no thorough clinical trials had been done to establish the safety of MRNA vaccines, all the research and evidence is in, and it is clear as a day that since the Industrial age, man-made climate change is real and is worrying for future generations. Had the Industrial age never occurred then earth wouldn't be heading fast towards the point of no return, for the human species anyhow.
Those few scientists who deny climate change are no doubt being paid big bucks from the captains of industry, to cast doubt and confusion re the evidence so that progress and profits will continue. Others, non-scientists, who deny the truth do so probably simply because they are anti-government (or anti- mainstream). You say that there are thousands of scientists who are non-believers - again, they are most probably being paid big bucks to make those claims but the vast majority of scientists around the world have a very different opinion - they are continually warning us of the catastrophic effects of climate change that may be in our lifetime.
Yes, there are always going to be minorities everywhere who deny events, just look at Germany - it's beyond belief that thousands of folk could be so evil, so cruel and so stupid to deny the holocaust but yet there are such folk living in our societies - thousands of them. Thankfully they are not respected and shunned in a civilized society.
Re climate change, you'll never convince me that man/Industrial age has not caused catastrophic damage and climate change that affects everyone but especially the young and future generations. Peter, you're wasting your time trying to convince me otherwise, and it seems that you won't change your mind either so maybe best that we don't discuss this subject again.
Bye for now,
Select to expand quoteParadox said..
NASA GISS have nothing to do whatsoever with NASA Space Agency. The Goddard Institute of Space Studies are a sperate organisation set up and run for many years by self confessed climate activist James Hansen. He was removed from office by Obama after being arrested twice at Climate demonstations. His understudy Gavin Schmidt now runs it.
They are not known for thier impartiality in respect for the causes of global warming.
what most people dont realise is that those graphs are not simply the plot of temperature data, they have been heavily manipulated and in often depart from the origninal data significnatly. The GISS land data set is heavily smoothed and homogenised and is subject to a lot of questions about bias in the way they manipulate the data. It is not unfounded. We have similar problems here with the BoMs ACORN data. Homegenisation is necessary, but it because it requires a significant amount of black box human manipulation it is open to concious and unconcious bias.The below link has lots of individual station data to reference. www.waclimate.net/acorn2/index.html
"The NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) is a laboratory in the Earth Sciences Division (ESD) of National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Goddard Space Flight Center (GSFC). The ESD is part of GSFC's Sciences and Exploration Directorate."
www.giss.nasa.gov/about/
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
Mu sister sent me an email a week ago saying she would never stop believing in Man Made Climate Change.
I might post her email lol.
Point being the indoctrination......its just too great, too good, too brilliant etc.
Hats off to the establishment for pulling off possibly the biggest con ever...........well nearly 
We must however never stop trying.
Hmm, reminds me of the movie "Twins" .
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
Mu sister sent me an email a week ago saying she would never stop believing in Man Made Climate Change.
I might post her email lol.
Point being the indoctrination......its just too great, too good, too brilliant etc.
Hats off to the establishment for pulling off possibly the biggest con ever...........well nearly
We must however never stop trying.
Still trying lying about May this year when temperatures were above average?
Select to expand quoteremery said..
"The NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) is a laboratory in the Earth Sciences Division (ESD) of National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Goddard Space Flight Center (GSFC). The ESD is part of GSFC's Sciences and Exploration Directorate."
www.giss.nasa.gov/about/
Was there a point to this post? As I said NASA GISS has nothing to do with the guys who fly rockets. They occupy a building above a resturant in New York. reason.com/2012/04/11/are-49-former-nasa-astronauts-scientists/ www.businessinsider.com/nasa-scientists-dispute-climate-change-2012-4
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
Mu sister sent me an email a week ago saying she would never stop believing in Man Made Climate Change.
Thats fine. the ovewhelming evidence is that we do indeed make a difference, at least when it comes to surface warming.
Urban heat island effect, land use and indeed CO2 all make a difference. The big scientific debate is how much is CO2 actually contributing and is it a problem. The data so far says no problem whatsoever with the roughly 1 deg warming we have seen, natural or otherwise. In fact on balance the move seems to have been postive for the planet.
I have been playing around in Mastadon, never really used twitter but mastadon and the Fediverse stuff seems ok. I gather twitter has some rate limiting going on at the moment. So a lot more people moving from it.
This guy seems to know his stuff fediscience.org/@ZLabe/110644546511026467
... shows the actual mean June concentration on the left and its anomaly on the right (relative to a 1981-2010 average).
Select to expand quotehardpole said..
I have been playing around in Mastadon, never really used twitter but mastadon and the Fediverse stuff seems ok. I gather twitter has some rate limiting going on at the moment. So a lot more people moving from it.
This guy seems to know his stuff fediscience.org/@ZLabe/110644546511026467
... shows the actual mean June concentration on the left and its anomaly on the right (relative to a 1981-2010 average).
There is no doubt the North polar sea ice extent has retreated from what is was in the summer months, but it reached its low point in 2012.
The 70's were an acknowledged cool period and also the point when satellites started being able to measure it. Prior to that records are pretty dodgy, but there is significant evidence that it was at least this low in the 40's. If you look at the long term trends summer sea ice extent very much appears to be a sinusoidal movement with us having now passed the low point. nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/
AMO linked most likely ,in the warm phase for last half century.Interesting to see a cold phase shift due any time in the next decade.
Select to expand quoteParadox said..hardpole said..
I have been playing around in Mastadon, never really used twitter but mastadon and the Fediverse stuff seems ok. I gather twitter has some rate limiting going on at the moment. So a lot more people moving from it.
This guy seems to know his stuff fediscience.org/@ZLabe/110644546511026467
... shows the actual mean June concentration on the left and its anomaly on the right (relative to a 1981-2010 average).
There is no doubt the North polar sea ice extent has retreated from what is was in the summer months, but it reached its low point in 2012.
The 70's were an acknowledged cool period and also the point when satellites started being able to measure it. Prior to that records are pretty dodgy, but there is significant evidence that it was at least this low in the 40's. If you look at the long term trends summer sea ice extent very much appears to be a sinusoidal movement with us having now passed the low point. nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/
That's a picture of Antarctica, so it's about summer sea ice loss down under
less than 10 yrs ago sea ice in Antarctica was at its highest since satellite records began its highly variable.There is no statistical trend according to the nsdic website.
Ice shelf mass has actually increased over last decade though.
doi.org/10.5194/tc-17-2059-2023
Select to expand quoteRango said..
less than 10 yrs ago sea ice in Antarctica was at its highest since satellite records began its highly variable.There is no statistical trend according to the nsdic website.
Ice shelf mass has actually increased over last decade though.
doi.org/10.5194/tc-17-2059-2023
That paper is up to 2019.
Select to expand quoteremery said..Rango said..
less than 10 yrs ago sea ice in Antarctica was at its highest since satellite records began its highly variable.There is no statistical trend according to the nsdic website.
Ice shelf mass has actually increased over last decade though.
doi.org/10.5194/tc-17-2059-2023
That paper is up to 2019.
that paper is not referring to sea ice.Ice shelves are different.
sea ice trend line over measured period on the other hand is flat.
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
That's a picture of Antarctica, so it's about summer sea ice loss down under
My bad you are correct. Antarctic sea ice has declined somewhat in the last few years.
As pointed out it is not a multidecadal trend that can be assocated with anthing but a change in sea currents bringing warming water to the area. The Antarctic land temps are actually in a mulitdecadal decline and the ice shelf is stable or growing. Many have pointed out the interesting trend that the poler sea ice tend to trend in opposite directions. Most likely due to the shifts in ocean currents.
www.sciencealert.com/its-official-monday-was-the-hottest-day-on-earth-since-records-began
"Monday was the world's hottest day on record, exceeding an average of 17 degrees Celsius (62.6 degrees Fahrenheit) for the first time, according to initial measurements taken on Tuesday by US meteorologists.
The average daily air temperature on the planet's surface on July 3 was logged at 17.01 ?C by an organisation attached to the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).
This measurement surpasses the previous daily record (16.92 ?C) set on July 24 last year, according to data from NOAA's National Centers for Environmental Prediction going back to 1979.
?The world's average air temperature, which fluctuates between around 12 ?C and just under 17 ?C on any given day over the year, averaged 16.2 ?C at the beginning of July between 1979 and 2000.
The record has yet to be corroborated by other measurements, but could soon be broken as the northern hemisphere's summer begins.
The average global temperature typically continues to rise until the end of July or beginning of August....
Temperatures are likely to rise even further above historical averages over the next year with the onset of an El Nino weather phenomenon in the Pacific Ocean, which the World Meteorological Organization confirmed on Monday is now underway.In addition, human activity -- mainly the burning of fossil fuels -- is continuing to emit roughly 40 billion tonnes of planet-warming CO2 into the atmosphere every year.
Select to expand quoteremery said..
www.sciencealert.com/its-official-monday-was-the-hottest-day-on-earth-since-records-began
"Monday was the world's hottest day on record, exceeding an average of 17 degrees Celsius (62.6 degrees Fahrenheit) for the first time, according to initial measurements taken on Tuesday by US meteorologists.
The average daily air temperature on the planet's surface on July 3 was logged at 17.01 ?C by an organisation attached to the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).
This measurement surpasses the previous daily record (16.92 ?C) set on July 24 last year, according to data from NOAA's National Centers for Environmental Prediction going back to 1979.
?The world's average air temperature, which fluctuates between around 12 ?C and just under 17 ?C on any given day over the year, averaged 16.2 ?C at the beginning of July between 1979 and 2000.
The record has yet to be corroborated by other measurements, but could soon be broken as the northern hemisphere's summer begins.
The average global temperature typically continues to rise until the end of July or beginning of August....
Temperatures are likely to rise even further above historical averages over the next year with the onset of an El Nino weather phenomenon in the Pacific Ocean, which the World Meteorological Organization confirmed on Monday is now underway.In addition, human activity -- mainly the burning of fossil fuels -- is continuing to emit roughly 40 billion tonnes of planet-warming CO2 into the atmosphere every year.
NOAA are pretty good at this. They make these media announcements, then caveat them with "initial measurements" and "The record has yet to be corroborated by other measurements". Then fail to do a correction when it turns out to be complete bunk.
They use the land data to project into the ocean and ignore the more accurate surface re-analysis that will come later and usually alter the claim.
Why would a science organisation keep releasing these unconfirmed results without final data you might ask? I have no answer except they do it to support a narrative. And then people wonder why people no longer trust these organisations.
Good discussion on the issue here by temperature expert Roy Spencer when NOAA did a similar thing a few years ago.
www.drroyspencer.com/2019/08/july-2019-was-not-the-warmest-on-record/
Select to expand quoteParadox said..
Good discussion on the issue here by temperature expert Roy Spencer when NOAA did a similar thing a few years ago.
www.drroyspencer.com/2019/08/july-2019-was-not-the-warmest-on-record/
Just another attention-seeker...
"Dr. Spencer is on the board of directors of the George C. Marshall Institute, a right-wing conservative think tank on scientific issues and public policy. He listed as an expert for the Heartland Institute, a libertarian American public policy think tank. Dr. Spencer is also listed as an expert by the International Climate and Environmental Change Assessment Project (ICECAP), a global warming "skeptic" Organization."
"The Earth's average temperature was 17.23C on Thursday, breaking the all-time record."
On Thursday the US weather service National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) said it could not confirm records that come partly from computer simulations, according to Associated Press.
Footnote to hysterical reporting.
