Select to expand quotemyscreenname said..cammd said..
I am crystal clear on this issue. Abortion kills unborn babies. Prove me wrong.
You ARE deluded. Humans are an extremely successful species, too successful. There are way too many of us. Abortion, wars, climate issues, pandemics, whatever, hardly dents our success on this planet. We are growing at a fast rate, something will give. What's the issue with death... It's inevitable. The human population is in not in decline, quite the opposite. Ludicrous assumption to make that life is somehow sacred. As a species we are doing unbelievably well.
Prove me wrong.
Face the facts, you and PM33 are freaks who live under rocks, you are in a miniscule minority. Doesn't mean you are wrong, but just means you are close to irrelevant. Most believe abortion is OK, with some guidelines. Not a perfect rule, but way better than what some pro life freaks, like you, are banging on about.
You meed to do a little more research into population growth. Its not as simple as meets the eye. Or as portrayed by the alarmists.
Populations are in decline in more than a handful of countries throughout the world. Still growing albeit more slowly in others.
Population growth has a direct correlation with wealth. Poor people breed like rabbits. Many live in screwed up countries whose governments are bribed to provide cheap access to resources. There's a constant flow of people from countries that have been delivered salvos of democracy. Fuelling a completely artificial and arguably detrimental situation with housing in the counties that receive them. Not to mention unnecessary social upheaval.
Middle income populations are generally either static or in decline.
If the economic shackles were removed and countries allowed to develop their economies their populations would plateau out.
Have a look at some of Hans Rosling's videos. He sheds much needed light on a widely misunderstood issue. He is also very entertaining.
Select to expand quoteD3 said..
The term your thinking of is Eugenics.
The problem being that homelessness is not a genetic condition.
"Certainly, a key factor shaping the attitudes of Europeans was the itinerant lifestyle so many Romani families practiced during those times. They moved from locale to locale, which engendered an aura of mystery and suspicion about them." So the Nazis murdered over 250,000 Roma.
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
Physically healthy 28-year-old woman will be euthanised next month (msn.com)
But you would insist that a devastatingly deformed embryo be brought into the world so it an be euthanised when it becomes a person?
Select to expand quotejapie said..
You meed to do a little more research into population growth. Its not as simple as meets the eye. Or as portrayed by the alarmists.
Populations are in decline in more than a handful of countries throughout the world. Still growing albeit more slowly in others.
Population growth has a direct correlation with wealth. Poor people breed like rabbits. Many live in screwed up countries whose governments are bribed to provide cheap access to resources. There's a constant flow of people from countries that have been delivered salvos of democracy. Fuelling a completely artificial and arguably detrimental situation with housing in the counties that receive them. Not to mention unnecessary social upheaval.
Middle income populations are generally either static or in decline.
If the economic shackles were removed and countries allowed to develop their economies their populations would plateau out.
Have a look at some of Hans Rosling's videos. He sheds much needed light on a widely misunderstood issue. He is also very entertaining.
I don't deny it.
Sales of adult nappies outpaced those for infants in Japan for more than a decade.
www.bbc.com/news/business-68672186
Select to expand quotejapie said..myscreenname said..cammd said..
I am crystal clear on this issue. Abortion kills unborn babies. Prove me wrong.
You ARE deluded. Humans are an extremely successful species, too successful. There are way too many of us. Abortion, wars, climate issues, pandemics, whatever, hardly dents our success on this planet. We are growing at a fast rate, something will give. What's the issue with death... It's inevitable. The human population is in not in decline, quite the opposite. Ludicrous assumption to make that life is somehow sacred. As a species we are doing unbelievably well.
Prove me wrong.
Face the facts, you and PM33 are freaks who live under rocks, you are in a miniscule minority. Doesn't mean you are wrong, but just means you are close to irrelevant. Most believe abortion is OK, with some guidelines. Not a perfect rule, but way better than what some pro life freaks, like you, are banging on about.
You meed to do a little more research into population growth. Its not as simple as meets the eye. Or as portrayed by the alarmists.
Populations are in decline in more than a handful of countries throughout the world. Still growing albeit more slowly in others.
Population growth has a direct correlation with wealth. Poor people breed like rabbits. Many live in screwed up countries whose governments are bribed to provide cheap access to resources. There's a constant flow of people from countries that have been delivered salvos of democracy. Fuelling a completely artificial and arguably detrimental situation with housing in the counties that receive them. Not to mention unnecessary social upheaval.
Middle income populations are generally either static or in decline.
If the economic shackles were removed and countries allowed to develop their economies their populations would plateau out.
Have a look at some of Hans Rosling's videos. He sheds much needed light on a widely misunderstood issue. He is also very entertaining.
That's that Bill Gates fella. Trying to vaccinate people in third world countries so that their children survive to adulthood and can take care of them instead of having 15 of them just in case half die.
It may sound like a really great way to solve overpopulation problems in these countries, but it's really a clever conspiracy so that he can go and live in a mansion in Bangladesh by himself.
Here in Australia, we have made housing and everything else so expensive that people are no longer having many kids, or any at all. So much so, that we have to import people, and then they do the same thing in the next generation when they realise how expensive things are here.
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
?si=c1sY0HdDzPtNNXKB
Unless that shows me where I can buy 2 miles of string, I am just not going to watch it.
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
?si=c1sY0HdDzPtNNXKB
This is what's wrong with the internet. Damn, another 3 minutes I'll never get back
Select to expand quotemyscreenname said..Pcdefender said..
?si=c1sY0HdDzPtNNXKB
This is what's wrong with the internet. Damn, another 3 minutes I'll never get back
Haha! You wasted three minutes of your life.
Select to expand quotemyscreenname said..Pcdefender said..
?si=c1sY0HdDzPtNNXKB
This is what's wrong with the internet. Damn, another 3 minutes I'll never get back
Did it have two guys standing 2 miles apart with a length of string and a ruler?
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
Did it have two guys standing 2 miles apart with a length of string and a ruler?
Something to do with the number 7
Had a kid throw a rock at my car.....
Is ok to abort a teenager? What is the cut off age
Select to expand quoteremery said..D3 said..
The term your thinking of is Eugenics.
The problem being that homelessness is not a genetic condition.
"Certainly, a key factor shaping the attitudes of Europeans was the itinerant lifestyle so many Romani families practiced during those times. They moved from locale to locale, which engendered an aura of mystery and suspicion about them." So the Nazis murdered over 250,000 Roma.
Not a unique to the Nazi's, lots of instances of different groups being persecuted in history, even Australia was declared uninhabited by people thereby allowing the legal persecution of indigeneous.
That's the way you do it though, Australia was Terra nullius, the Jews were called sub human etc, convince the population your doing a service by getting rid of non humans and it's seen as righteous.
Sound familiar, we all know unborn babies are humans just doing our best to pretend they aren't.
Select to expand quotecammd said..
Sound familiar, we all know unborn babies are humans just doing our best to pretend they aren't.
I am sure this is going to anger/disappoint/disturb some people; but I don't even value a baby as much I would a toddler or a teenager. Sure, they are human, but they don't really have much perception of much. They can feel pain. They have instincts, but they really aren't on the same level as a being that has developed and become an interactive creature.
We as older humans have evolved to care for babies and small children, but what are they really?
I doubt anyone can recall anything before a certain age, and even then sometimes these 'memories' are not real.
We all accept that human embryos are infact human. Whether that is enough is a different question. Should you bring a child into the world if you don't think they are going to get a decent upbringing? When there are already a lot of humans around?
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..cammd said..
Sound familiar, we all know unborn babies are humans just doing our best to pretend they aren't.
I am sure this is going to anger/disappoint/disturb some people; but I don't even value a baby as much I would a toddler or a teenager. Sure, they are human, but they don't really have much perception of much. They can feel pain. They have instincts, but they really aren't on the same level as a being that has developed and become an interactive creature.
We as older humans have evolved to care for babies and small children, but what are they really?
I doubt anyone can recall anything before a certain age, and even then sometimes these 'memories' are not real.
We all accept that human embryos are infact human. Whether that is enough is a different question. Should you bring a child into the world if you don't think they are going to get a decent upbringing? When there are already a lot of humans around?
I think many share your viewpoint, just not honest enough with themselves to admit it.
It's a very immoral viewpoint btw, you don't value babies as much as a toddler, others don't value different races or religions or genders etc etc as much as another . That shouldn't open the door for legally sanctioned discrimination, or persecution and certainly not termination but that is what abortion laws do.
I don't think you would agree with persecuting or discriminating against a particular demographic but you actually are, in the worst possible way, your just drawing different lines in the sand compared to someone who may see a different race or religion worthy of termination, both are equally bad because the principle is the same.
Babies are a pain in the butt. They should stay in the womb till they are at least 4 or 5. Anything younger is just an abomination. I've already told my kids that once they start popping out babies I'm not coming to visit until the youngest is in kindergarten.
Select to expand quotecammd said..FormulaNova said..cammd said..
Sound familiar, we all know unborn babies are humans just doing our best to pretend they aren't.
I am sure this is going to anger/disappoint/disturb some people; but I don't even value a baby as much I would a toddler or a teenager. Sure, they are human, but they don't really have much perception of much. They can feel pain. They have instincts, but they really aren't on the same level as a being that has developed and become an interactive creature.
We as older humans have evolved to care for babies and small children, but what are they really?
I doubt anyone can recall anything before a certain age, and even then sometimes these 'memories' are not real.
We all accept that human embryos are infact human. Whether that is enough is a different question. Should you bring a child into the world if you don't think they are going to get a decent upbringing? When there are already a lot of humans around?
I think many share your viewpoint, just not honest enough with themselves to admit it.
It's a very immoral viewpoint btw, you don't value babies as much as a toddler, others don't value different races or religions or genders etc etc as much as another . That shouldn't open the door for legally sanctioned discrimination, or persecution and certainly not termination but that is what abortion laws do.
I don't think you would agree with persecuting or discriminating against a particular demographic but you actually are, in the worst possible way, your just drawing different lines in the sand compared to someone who may see a different race or religion worthy of termination, both are equally bad because the principle is the same.
Your use of the word "immoral" is an interesting one. Lets assume 'moral' means "standards of behaviour; principles of right and wrong". You are saying my weighting of one thing over another thing is against community standards?
Since when has the community sat down and decide whether to value a baby over a toddler or vice versa? Really? That's just a dumb argument. No one has done that, no one gets to make the choice of not losing one by sacrificing the other.
I think instead of "BTW" you should be using "IMO", because it is really just your opinion and not the community's.
My value judgement is based on the entity you call a baby.
Societies have been terminating baby's lives for a long time. Even animals other than us do it. Heck, nature has even adapted to not having offspring in bad environmental times.
Just because I try and argue the value of a baby versus a toddler versus a teenager does not make this a general comparison of different races, different genders, and of course, religions.
You may think its logical that you would see your 14 year old child as equal value to a newborn child, but I don't. That is just nonsense. Luckily that we don't need to make these calls isn't it.
Select to expand quotephiln said..
Babies are a pain in the butt.
Yeah, look... I think you and the wife are doing it wrong....
Select to expand quote
Since when has the community sat down and decide whether to value a baby over a toddler or vice versa? Really? That's just a dumb argument. No one has done that, no one gets to make the choice of not losing one by sacrificing the other.
.
It appears you weren't paying attention during the pandemic. The YLL figure quoted by epidemiologists refers to pretty much this.
Edit: it was also the basis of my argument against lockdown. If you didn't understand them, then it's no wonder you disagreed.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
Since when has the community sat down and decide whether to value a baby over a toddler or vice versa?
You might need to re read what you said, are you twisting the argument on purpose or are you just struggling to come to terms with what you wrote above
First you say this
but I don't even value a baby as much I would a toddler or a teenager,"
then you follow up with this straight after
Since when has the community sat down and decide whether to value a baby over a toddler or vice versa? Really? That's just a dumb argument. No one has done that, no one gets to make the choice of not losing one by sacrificing the other.
I think in general society would place equal value on a baby and a toddler, its you who said a toddler has more value than a baby. That was your dumb and immoral argument not mine.
A good percentage of the population think 'its the woman choice' or 'the mother has the right to choose'.
We have been conditioned to think this way by our overlords who own the mainstream media.
What about the rights of the unborn?
The pain inflicted on the unborn baby during this horrific practice should be enough to stop it.
Select to expand quotecammd said..FormulaNova said..
Since when has the community sat down and decide whether to value a baby over a toddler or vice versa?
You might need to re read what you said, are you twisting the argument on purpose or are you just struggling to come to terms with what you wrote above
First you say this
but I don't even value a baby as much I would a toddler or a teenager,"
then you follow up with this straight after
Since when has the community sat down and decide whether to value a baby over a toddler or vice versa? Really? That's just a dumb argument. No one has done that, no one gets to make the choice of not losing one by sacrificing the other.
I think in general society would place equal value on a baby and a toddler, its you who said a toddler has more value than a baby. That was your dumb and immoral argument not mine.
Okay, first thing's first. You are calling things immoral, which essentially means going against the 'rights and wrongs' based on community judgements/consensus. For you to be correct in calling things "immoral" they need to be against the community beliefs.
Me judging an emryonic human or a baby as less worth than a toddler or teenager is clearly not immoral as society has not got a position on this; it never comes up. We as society are not asked to value one against the other and never have a situation where we have to choose one over the other.
Does that clarify the comment about it being immoral or not?
No one is twisting any argument. You are judging things as immoral. I am just pointing out that this particular comparison cannot be because society has never really compared them. We are never asked to choose.
Now, again, to spell it out. This is my own personal belief. It is neither immoral or moral. Now if you want to add your own religious tones to it, knock yourself out, but its not a question of morals.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..
Since when has the community sat down and decide whether to value a baby over a toddler or vice versa? Really? That's just a dumb argument. No one has done that, no one gets to make the choice of not losing one by sacrificing the other.
.
It appears you weren't paying attention during the pandemic. The YLL figure quoted by epidemiologists refers to pretty much this.
Edit: it was also the basis of my argument against lockdown. If you didn't understand them, then it's no wonder you disagreed.
I don't even understand your argument now. If you want me to understand it, dumb it down like good doctors can, if not I am okay with that.
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
What about the rights of the unborn?
The overlords have asked me to ask the question; what happens to the unborn child's rights when it grows to be 30 years old and is impregnated with a child it does not want or can care for. Does the unborn's rights then get extinguished?
If you have answered that question, what happens to those same rights if the pregnancy creates a risk to the mother's rights to live? It cannot be a clear-cut answer.
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
A good percentage of the population think 'its the woman choice' or 'the mother has the right to choose'.
We have been conditioned to think this way by our overlords who own the mainstream media.
What about the rights of the unborn?
The pain inflicted on the unborn baby during this horrific practice should be enough to stop it.
If you want to choose for the woman, quit yapping and get to booking your vasectomy. Decision imposed. Done
You still haven't answered my question. Would you force an ectopic to miscarry?
From Wikipedia:
Most international human rights charters "clearly reject claims that human rights should attach from conception or any time before birth.
Some countries do have some level of constitutional recognition of Fetal rights, many have clearly articulated that a fetus is only recognized as a human being once it is born, breathing, has independent circulation and the cord is cut.
There are other protections for Fetal rights in the circumstances of parental alcohol/drug dependency etc.
Abortion is one of the last fronts in the sexual equality struggle.
Activist men won't be satisfied until they can have abortions too.
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
A good percentage of the population think 'its the woman choice' or 'the mother has the right to choose'.
We have been conditioned to think this way by our overlords who own the mainstream media.
What about the rights of the unborn?
The pain inflicted on the unborn baby during this horrific practice should be enough to stop it.
In most countries a fetus doesn't have rights, because it's not human yet.
You have the choice to move to a country where the overlords condition you to believe a woman has less rights than a fetus. Why don't you do that?
Countries where abortion is illegal or severely restricted include:
El Salvador
Nicaragua
Malta
Vatican City
Andorra
Please note: abortion laws can change, so it's essential to verify the current status in any particular country.
Select to expand quotemyscreenname said..
You have the choice to move to a country where the overlords condition you to believe a woman has less rights than a fetus. Why don't you do that?
Countries where abortion is illegal or severely restricted include:
El Salvador
Nicaragua
Malta
Vatican City
Andorra
Please note: abortion laws can change, so it's essential to verify the current status in any particular country.
I am guessing it is normally not much of an issue in the Vatican City.
I am seeing a certain theme with these places you have nominated, and they might just align with PM33's own viewpoints. I would suggest a Go-fund-me except there would be minimal sailing opprtunities in these locations.
Malta looks fairly good
Windsurf in Malta and sail the sea like the wind
Windsurfing during your holiday in MaltaMalta is the ideal choice for windsurfing due to the warm waters and the easy accessibility of windsurfing spots. The ideal time to go windsurfing in Malta is between November and March, when the wind conditions are at their best. Cold fronts that usually travel across the Mediterranean from NW to SE give mainly strong NW winds lasting 2-3 days with a usual force around five or six. However, winter wetsuits of minimum 4 mm are needed during this period while a t-shirt and shorts are fine during summer. The best windsurfing areas in Malta are Mellieha Bay, Ghallis Rock (close to St. Julian's) and St. Thomas Bay.
Windsurfing Spots in Malta, for all styles and conditions
The most popular windsurfing spot in Malta is Ghallis Rock located on the coast road, especially when the wind is from W/NW/N. Experience is needed to surf in this area and be careful when there is a shore break for the rocks. Mellieha bay is the largest bay in Malta and it is also offers the largest variety of windsurfing conditions with flat waters that are perfect for speed blasting and slalom. St. Thomas Bay is a quite small bay on the south side of Malta facing E'S. Windsurfing conditions in St. Thomas Bay are similar to Mellieha Bay but in a less crowded area. Usually windsurfing rentals in Malta do not cater for the more advanced windsurfers, only beginners
